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Faith without proof

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Circle_One, Dec 14, 2004.

  1. Rozs

    Rozs Member

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    Circle_One
    We must only believe what is written in the Bible.
     
  2. goodjewishboy

    goodjewishboy Shalom!

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    Which Bible though? Tanach? New Testament? Qu'ran? And do you take it at face value or do you question? What about those who are spiritual but do not follow the teachings of any particular faith? There are many paths to Truth.
     
  3. Rozs

    Rozs Member

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    ISAIAH 34:16
    Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them.
     
  4. Rozs

    Rozs Member

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    JOHN 17:17
    Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
     
  5. HelpMe

    HelpMe ·´sociopathic meanderer`·

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    well, to say 'the bible' is technically only to say 'the book'.

    i don't know if you should quote the NT to a jewish person.
     
  6. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    [font=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]"If you leave the Christian Bible outside, eventually the wind and the rain will destroy it. My bible IS the wind and the rain."

    I seek no more proof than I find in the world around me. The more I see in the wonders of the way the world works the better. :)

    wa:do
    [/font]
     
  7. goodjewishboy

    goodjewishboy Shalom!

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    I've spent some time with the Miami Nation in Oklahoma for a school project last year. After talking with many of them and attended some of their rituals. it seams to me they have a better understanding of things spiritually than many others.
     
  8. fromthe heart

    fromthe heart Well-Known Member

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    Santa doesn't exactly fall into the myth category like the tooth fairy does...or does he/ There was a real person who led to the santa factor...I believe somewhere a long time ago I was told even Santa considered himself just a humble believer in God...I'm very unsure how the tooth fairy came about. Someone said that when parents tell youngsters that there is a santa and tooth fiary and the like tehn later down the road say there is no such thing it's then believed...maybe parents recognize that when a child reaches a certian age they'd better tell the truth or have their kids think them a liar?
     
  9. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    The tooth fairy is a vicious campaign led by our youth to extract quarters (or dollars) from unsuspecting adults. THEY KNOW AND PROPOGATE THE LIE. I think I'm gonna start a web site to expose these charlatans. :D
     
  10. Circle_One

    Circle_One Well-Known Member

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    Talking about using the tooth fairy as a means to capitalize off the myth as a child; when I was young, I remember getting a dollar or two for each lost tooth. I have a friend who's daughter just lost her first tooth and she put 20$ under the kid's pillow!
     
  11. cardero

    cardero Citizen Mod

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    Nothing requires faith when it comes to believing. You either believe it or you do not. You either PROOVE a belief to a TRUTH or an UNTRUTH or you put in your pocket until you have more time to analyze it later. Why would you put faith in a belief? Faith is the beginning of abusing your beliefs which may lead to believing blindly. That is no way to competently/successfully arrive to your TRUTHs.

     
  12. HelpMe

    HelpMe ·´sociopathic meanderer`·

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    [font=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]as is the case with any book.

    perhaps there's a reason almost every species seeks shelter from wind and rain?it has nothing to do with a supposed inferiority of said subject/object to the elements.
    [/font]
     
  13. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    that is why my religion doesn't use books. ;)

    and yes, it is because we are inferior to the elements that we flee from them. We can not stop the wind and rain or any weather. We are at their mercy they are not at ours... thus we are 'inferior' as you put it. When you can tell a tornado or an eathquake to stop and dissapate then we can say that we are not 'inferior'.

    wa:do
     
  14. HelpMe

    HelpMe ·´sociopathic meanderer`·

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    when natural disasters whipe out our race, we may be called 'inferior' to them.
     
  15. goodjewishboy

    goodjewishboy Shalom!

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  16. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    Actually Santa in the sense you speak of was present at the Council of Nicea in 324.

    He may have had a hand in the Biblical canons of the Orthadox Church.
     
  17. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    Thank goodness someone is promoting some kind of sanity to this tooth fairy rate of exchange.

    With three kids it`s starting to wreck me.
     
  18. Lintu

    Lintu Active Member

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    Wow, Circle, I only got a quarter! And $5 for the last one.
     
  19. dan

    dan Well-Known Member

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    C.S. Lewis says that that kind of faith is the faith required of those already embarked in the service of God. For those who yet question His existence you need not KNOW without proof; but a life of faithfulness will provide one with all the proof needed.

    Scriven argues that you must be able to prove conclusively with no margin for error that God exists in order to have faith. He argues that this proof does not exist, and therefore faith is for the deranged and stupid.

    Pascal makes a wager. If God exists and you do not believe in Him your non-belief has gained you little (a short life free from rules) but costs you much (eternity). If you believe, you risk little (a short life free from rules) but you gain much (eternity). The smart money would always go on God existing, as the pros far outweigh the cons in each scenario.

    James feels this is an insufficient basis for faith (as do I) and argues that only a fool would act contrary to all the evidence in the world just to satisfy the terms of his little wager, but further argues for faith in God using our passional natures agaisnt our critical sides to make his rather convincing argument.

    I meet people every day who have never found proof that God does not exist. Their juvenile faith has carried them to adulthood where they find the proof that faith affords those who want it. Others arrive at faith through deductive reasoning and logic, but the infinite cannot possibly be encapsulated in our finite understanding, and logic fails to transcend (and therefore prove or disprove) the divine. It is folly to even believe that we can define God if we don't even believe in Him. Without definition we cannot reach a conclusion. I personally did not believe. I was of the pyrrhonist category that demanded (with self-righteous indignation) irrefutable proof, and that proof was afforded me tenfold. I cannot argue with the evidence that was made available to me, and since giving up that skepticism I find I cannot find it again as the proof for the existence of the Lord far overshadows any doubt that could possibly be thrown across it. If you don't think the sky is blue no one on or off this earth will ever convince you otherwise. That's human nature and it is utterly ludicrous to continue to demand proof for something you don't want to believe. Nor will God decide your skepticism has earned you the right to be among the few blessed enough to receive divine intervention in their search for truth.
     
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  20. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    What Dan said! :D
     
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