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Featured Faith Schools

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Dan Mellis, Apr 12, 2019.

  1. Dan Mellis

    Dan Mellis Thorsredballs

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    Hi. First post here (hooray for me).

    I have a bee in my bonnet about this.

    In the UK, we have government - funded chos which are allowed to select a proportion of their pupils purely on the basis of their faith.

    In their studies, they are allowed (and do) teach things like "homosexuality isnt a sin, but practicing it is," and "women on their period should be avoided."

    We don't have a seperation of church and state here - in fact, we have 26 seats reserved for bishops to vote in our parliament. But, because we're a largely irreligious country, theres a certain amount of apathy surrounding these matters. Nobody takes either church or state seriously - so its hard to make any sort of change.

    What are your views on the faith school system? Are there similar systems in the US and Europe?
     
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  2. Shiranui117

    Shiranui117 Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
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    We have strong separation between church and state in the US. Religious organizations do not have representatives in Congress, no religious institutions are favored or upheld by the government, any religious organization can receive tax-exempt status if they meet the same set of requirements, and they can teach whatever they want as long as they don't call for harm to another person or otherwise call for violations of American law. All religious schools are private and do not receive federal funding; disadvantaged student attending private schools, however, do receive help from the government to pay the tuition for the school.
     
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  3. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

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    I'm actually not sure as far as Belgium is concerned.
    There are "faith schools" in the sense of "catholic schools" as opposed to public schools and where everybody essentially is forced to take religious class. Whereas in public schools, such courses are optional (and more diverse).

    However, to my knowledge, such schools are not allowed to "discriminate" based on religious beliefs. They also are required to follow the official curriculum standards. In the sense of what the syllabus must at least consist of. Not sure in how far they are also allowed to add to that syllabus in conflicting ways with the rest.

    For example, they'll be held to a standard in biology courses and must teach evolution theory. I don't know if they can then add a course "creationism" in which they call evolution false.

    I luckily don't know of a single school in Belgium that does this though. Frankly, I'ld be surprised if there are actual recognised schools in Belgium where this happens. "Recognised" in the sense of, if you graduate there, your diploma is recognised by the state.

    In my not-so-humble opinion... such faith schools (like the ones you refer to) should be illegal accross the board. If parents insist on filling their children's heads with obvious nonsense, they can do so on their private time or in private religious sunday schools or whatever - while the kids go to proper schools during the week.

    I think that as a nation, there is a responsability to protect the intellectual integrity of the next generation of citizens. And such "faith schools" are a complete rape of intellectual integrity.
     
  4. mistoftime

    mistoftime Member

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    I would ban faith schools if that was possible, children should not be indoctrinated but permitted to make up their own minds about religion.
     
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  5. Dan Mellis

    Dan Mellis Thorsredballs

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    It might be worth a further look! I held very similar assumptions about our system until I checked on it. We're scarily liberal when it comes to teaching conservative views.
     
  6. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

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    To be honest: this is only true on paper. And not paper money, because on there you have the words "in god we trust".

    Except in a way, they really really do. You call them politicians.
    American politicians bring more theology into politics then the 26 bisshops in UK government.

    Try building a political carreer in the US while openly stating that you are an atheist...

    But are they required to uphold a certain curriculum?
    Are there any binding guidelines on what things a school should cover?
     
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  7. Dan Mellis

    Dan Mellis Thorsredballs

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    I'm no fan of the religious state of affairs in america, it being a much more conservative country than the UK. If only we could combine countries to have the secularism of our society with the secularism of your constitution.
     
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  8. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    went to catholic schools for the most part
    in between early years ... public
    and the very last two years of high school...public

    the in between years in catholic school was better than public
    better organization
    more intent to learning

    public schools I think are hindered by public opinion and law
    catholic schools have a more serious focus

    now if only the religious could drop the dogmatic teachings........yes?

    it's one thing to teach of God
    quite something else to insist on superstition and ritual
     
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  9. Dan Mellis

    Dan Mellis Thorsredballs

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    True... there's only one humanist polititian that I know of. Reminds me of a Dawkins argument that 'you can't be intelligent and be religious, and you can't be an atheist and a successful polititian(in the US). Therefore, the government is set up to be full of the stupid and the dishonest."

    Edit - I relistened to this talk just now and I'e misquoted quite badly. I fully recommend the TED talk "militant atheism" by Richard Dawkins during which he makes a strong case for the above point :)
     
    #9 Dan Mellis, Apr 12, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
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  10. Dan Mellis

    Dan Mellis Thorsredballs

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    This seems to be a criticism of public schools rather than an advocacy of catholic ones - surely the more sensible option would be to ban religious indoctrination in school and sort out the public schools?

    Im assuming you mean secular schools by "public" as most catholic ones, although discriminatory, are public.
     
  11. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    in junior year the tuition money for the catholic version ran out
    public schools are funded by tax money
    and if your not in school somewhere.....the truant officer will come looking

    but the public school in my neighborhood had problems
    serious problems
    like regular and unscheduled locker checks for weapons

    in catholic high school I wore a collared shirt and tie
    dress shoes
    a short haircut
    a belt
    socks
    no facial hair

    we looked like young business men
    and were expected to behave as such
     
  12. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Hi Dan from Uk.
    Our revoltingist poster will soon invite you to a sumptuous repast.
    Are you partial to haggis with your bloaters? :D
     
  13. David1967

    David1967 Well-Known Member
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    I think that unless it is a privately funded religious school it should be secular in nature. Any govt. funded school should be strictly secular. Over here in the US, this falls under separation of church and state.

    Hmm, and what religion would this be? Over here its women in menopause that should be avoided. (kidding:oops:)
     
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  14. David1967

    David1967 Well-Known Member
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    Welcome to RF, BTW.
     
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  15. Dan Mellis

    Dan Mellis Thorsredballs

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    As much as I love haggis, I'm not sure what a bloater is haha! I'm from the North of England so that might be a southern colloqualism I'm not familiar with. Damned southerners and their weird words. Gan hyem nd sart yer heed oot
     
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  16. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    My views are they should be left to teach what they want. No one bats an eye about Muslim schools teaching the same things and even much more radical things. Just Christian schools are targeted. It is very disingenuous which is typical.

    I say let Christians be Christians if they want and Muslims be Muslims if they want; except when either one of them starts teaching their kids to blow themselves up or something like that.
     
  17. Dan Mellis

    Dan Mellis Thorsredballs

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    I'm curious how that works functionally... am I right in thinking religion still plays a big part in US schools?

    Also, thats Islam. Periods are dirty dirty apparently. Tampons too - the school whose policy I'm reading teaches that because of "insertion" tampons are immoral.
     
  18. Dan Mellis

    Dan Mellis Thorsredballs

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    I hope I haven't been unclear and come across as disingenuous! My issue is with any faith scho funded by taxpayers money (and any that teaches discriminatory values). Christian schools make up the majoroty of this problem but Islamic and Jewish schools are just as bad! There just arent as many of them.
     
  19. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    No you haven't been disingenuous. I didn't mean it personally. I mean the agenda in general pushed by liberals against Christian schools seems disingenuous.
     
  20. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    In addition to what has been said about the US separation of church and state, we have public schools and private schools. Twelve years of education is required for every citizen, and they may get that either through public or privately funded schools. We also allow privately funded home schooling to fill the requirement.

    One thing that helps retain separation between church and state: A tax exempt institution may not endorse political candidates and still retain its tax-exempt status. Any such place will be considered taxable by the IRS.

    Private schools tend to be small, and that makes it hard for many children to learn good social skills. A student may transfer between schools, as I transferred from a private to a public school and back. I also did some home schooling. Children are in school for many hours per day, so they need good socialization in school. I suggest religious schools aren't so bad if they just have enough size to help students socialize properly, but usually they are small. Very often they are associated with an individual church and have only a few hundred students. That is bad for children in my opinion.

    Some states have experimented with school vouchers that allow parents to use public funding for private schooling. Others have experimented with vouchers that are for public schools only. I'm not perfectly happy about private schools teaching creationism, so I am not perfectly happy about public funds going to support private schools. I am adamant that it is not Ok to teach creationism as if it were science. Its dishonest and sets students back, but many private schools do this. Church schools in particular may demonize subjects like Psychology, Art, Astronomy etc. Understandably its impossible to give them publicly funded vouchers, since they are un-educating students in this way.

    Currently public schools do not have to compete against each other, except for some newly introduced national standardized testing. The standardized testing is used to allocate funding. This arrangement is not working well, but the standardized testing is revealing the weakness of the current school system.

    Private academies do this right: school uniforms. Why don't public schools require this? Its ridiculous not to require uniforms. Private academies do this wrong: skirts. What are they thinking? No skirts. Everybody should wear full body suits that are easy to get on and an optional jacket.
     
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