Faith, purpose in life, the hand of God

[Scott C.]

Among people from all walks of life, different races, nationalities, cultures, economic circumstances, life experiences, degrees of suffering, education level, etc., there are people who sense God’s love and mercy and those who do not.

There are starving people who pray for food and who when they receive a mere morsel, see God’s hand. They sense God’s love and feel his compassion. They see a ray of heavenly light and sense the angels are near. While only a morsel, something spiritual happens and they are strengthened in their faith.

Then there are those who feel slighted and angry in the same circumstance. They see their morsel of bread and compare with the millionaire somewhere else. They feel no love from God. They don’t see his hand in bringing them any food. They conclude there is no God or if there is a God, he’s unfair and unloving and distant.

The people who sees God’s hand and feel gratitude see purpose in their challenges. They know that God sees a far larger picture than we see. He sees eternity. He sees our future there. Eventually whether in this life or the next, God will wipe away all tears and there will be joy. We will understand what we experienced and why and appreciate the spiritual growth.

When times have been the darkest for me (and I won’t try to compare to anyone else’s dark times on the planet), I have felt my faith challenged. But I have always seen God’s mercy in little or large ways. I sense a glimmer of light, the heavens open, and I sense there is purpose and meaning and God is with me. I see and sense his hand.

Faith and belief in a merciful God is not reserved for those who seem to have it all, nor is it reserved for those who seem to have so little and who suffer so much. I don’t know why some people are born into one circumstance and others are born into another. But regardless of the circumstance, the point is to find God, to feel his love, and to be grateful. The point is to sense that “Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God has prepared for them that love him.” (1 Corinthians 2:9)

I understand there are people who find this all to be absurd. But what I don’t understand is why some people don’t seem to understand the concept of a loving and all powerful God who allows suffering for righteous purposes, and for our gain, and which we will one day understand, if not in this life, in the next. The concept is powerful and clear to me. I can conceive of such a Being and purpose to life and I believe it’s true. It’s one thing to understand the concept and to reject it, but another to not understand the concept. Many of the challenges that people make to my faith, show a lack of understanding of the concept.

Thoughtful comments?

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Among people from all walks of life, different races, nationalities, cultures, economic circumstances, life experiences, degrees of suffering, education level, etc., there are people who sense God’s love and mercy and those who do not.

There are starving people who pray for food and who when they receive a mere morsel, see God’s hand. They sense God’s love and feel his compassion. They see a ray of heavenly light and sense the angels are near. While only a morsel, something spiritual happens and they are strengthened in their faith.

Then there are those who feel slighted and angry in the same circumstance. They see their morsel of bread and compare with the millionaire somewhere else. They feel no love from God. They don’t see his hand in bringing them any food. They conclude there is no God or if there is a God, he’s unfair and unloving and distant.

The people who sees God’s hand and feel gratitude see purpose in their challenges. They know that God sees a far larger picture than we see. He sees eternity. He sees our future there. Eventually whether in this life or the next, God will wipe away all tears and there will be joy. We will understand what we experienced and why and appreciate the spiritual growth.

When times have been the darkest for me (and I won’t try to compare to anyone else’s dark times on the planet), I have felt my faith challenged. But I have always seen God’s mercy in little or large ways. I sense a glimmer of light, the heavens open, and I sense there is purpose and meaning and God is with me. I see and sense his hand.

Faith and belief in a merciful God is not reserved for those who seem to have it all, nor is it reserved for those who seem to have so little and who suffer so much. I don’t know why some people are born into one circumstance and others are born into another. But regardless of the circumstance, the point is to find God, to feel his love, and to be grateful. The point is to sense that “Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God has prepared for them that love him.” (1 Corinthians 2:9)

I understand there are people who find this all to be absurd. But what I don’t understand is why some people don’t seem to understand the concept of a loving and all powerful God who allows suffering for righteous purposes, and for our gain, and which we will one day understand, if not in this life, in the next. The concept is powerful and clear to me. I can conceive of such a Being and purpose to life and I believe it’s true. It’s one thing to understand the concept and to reject it, but another to not understand the concept. Many of the challenges that people make to my faith, show a lack of understanding of the concept.

Thoughtful comments?

I can respect your faith and see that it brings meaning and purpose to your life, and comforts you when things are difficult. But, how can you be 100% certain that these experiences are actually attributable to a God and not just manifestations of your desire for God to exist? I certainly understand that the idea of a purposeless universe, or the idea that this life is all there is to existence, is troubling. But just because something is troubling is no reason to disbelieve it. Likewise, just because something brings you comfort is no reason to believe it. I won't argue against your position, and I won't argue for a nihilistic position either. But, to claim with absolute certainty that a personal God exists while providing no evidence other than subjective gut feelings and to feel compelled to impose this essentially baseless belief on others is very problematic to me.

 

[Kenny]

I understand there are people who find this all to be absurd. But what I don’t understand is why some people don’t seem to understand the concept of a loving and all powerful God who allows suffering for righteous purposes, and for our gain, and which we will one day understand, if not in this life, in the next.

I totally agree with the overall heart of what you are saying and certainly so much truth in it. You can be rich and see God's mercy or not be happy at all or be poor and see God's mercy or not be happy at all.

It is the above statement that I think taught but not correct. There are sufferings that God allows (persecution for righteousness sake) but ther are sufferings that God doesn't want and He wants His body to eliminate because of the Cross.

 

[Nakosis]

Among people from all walks of life, different races, nationalities, cultures, economic circumstances, life experiences, degrees of suffering, education level, etc., there are people who sense God’s love and mercy and those who do not.

There are starving people who pray for food and who when they receive a mere morsel, see God’s hand. They sense God’s love and feel his compassion. They see a ray of heavenly light and sense the angels are near. While only a morsel, something spiritual happens and they are strengthened in their faith.

Then there are those who feel slighted and angry in the same circumstance. They see their morsel of bread and compare with the millionaire somewhere else. They feel no love from God. They don’t see his hand in bringing them any food. They conclude there is no God or if there is a God, he’s unfair and unloving and distant.

The people who sees God’s hand and feel gratitude see purpose in their challenges. They know that God sees a far larger picture than we see. He sees eternity. He sees our future there. Eventually whether in this life or the next, God will wipe away all tears and there will be joy. We will understand what we experienced and why and appreciate the spiritual growth.

When times have been the darkest for me (and I won’t try to compare to anyone else’s dark times on the planet), I have felt my faith challenged. But I have always seen God’s mercy in little or large ways. I sense a glimmer of light, the heavens open, and I sense there is purpose and meaning and God is with me. I see and sense his hand.

Faith and belief in a merciful God is not reserved for those who seem to have it all, nor is it reserved for those who seem to have so little and who suffer so much. I don’t know why some people are born into one circumstance and others are born into another. But regardless of the circumstance, the point is to find God, to feel his love, and to be grateful. The point is to sense that “Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God has prepared for them that love him.” (1 Corinthians 2:9)

I understand there are people who find this all to be absurd. But what I don’t understand is why some people don’t seem to understand the concept of a loving and all powerful God who allows suffering for righteous purposes, and for our gain, and which we will one day understand, if not in this life, in the next. The concept is powerful and clear to me. I can conceive of such a Being and purpose to life and I believe it’s true. It’s one thing to understand the concept and to reject it, but another to not understand the concept. Many of the challenges that people make to my faith, show a lack of understanding of the concept.

Thoughtful comments?

I don't see the concept as absurd, just unnecessary.

You can pray for food, I don't think it makes a difference to whether you actually get food or not.

I don't need a God to prevent tears or provide joy. I can have and feel plenty of love and compassion without God.

So I always ask what benefit does a belief in God have that I can't just as easily have without a belief in God.

 

[dfnj]

But what I don’t understand is why some people don’t seem to understand the concept of a loving and all powerful God who allows suffering for righteous purposes, and for our gain, and which we will one day understand, if not in this life, in the next. The concept is powerful and clear to me. I can conceive of such a Being and purpose to life and I believe it’s true. Thoughtful comments?

An all powerful God who allows suffering for any reason is not all powerful. An all powerful God needs absolutely NOTHING from us. So all the unnecessary evil in the world is for no purpose.

The whole idea that God needs to be worship is crazy talk. The Bible is just propaganda so people are conditioned to respect monarchy as a form of government. God needs nothing from us. As far as I can tell God just observes us or shares our experiences.

If you want judgment and justice it will have to come from secular law.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I don't feel either anger or gratefulness. Just the challenge and satisfaction of working towards my own goals and community and friends and family. I thank people who help, and try and reign in people who hurt, and leave the middlemen deities out of it

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Among people from all walks of life, different races, nationalities, cultures, economic circumstances, life experiences, degrees of suffering, education level, etc., there are people who sense God’s love and mercy and those who do not.

There are starving people who pray for food and who when they receive a mere morsel, see God’s hand. They sense God’s love and feel his compassion. They see a ray of heavenly light and sense the angels are near. While only a morsel, something spiritual happens and they are strengthened in their faith.

Then there are those who feel slighted and angry in the same circumstance. They see their morsel of bread and compare with the millionaire somewhere else. They feel no love from God. They don’t see his hand in bringing them any food. They conclude there is no God or if there is a God, he’s unfair and unloving and distant.

The people who sees God’s hand and feel gratitude see purpose in their challenges. They know that God sees a far larger picture than we see. He sees eternity. He sees our future there. Eventually whether in this life or the next, God will wipe away all tears and there will be joy. We will understand what we experienced and why and appreciate the spiritual growth.

When times have been the darkest for me (and I won’t try to compare to anyone else’s dark times on the planet), I have felt my faith challenged. But I have always seen God’s mercy in little or large ways. I sense a glimmer of light, the heavens open, and I sense there is purpose and meaning and God is with me. I see and sense his hand.

Faith and belief in a merciful God is not reserved for those who seem to have it all, nor is it reserved for those who seem to have so little and who suffer so much. I don’t know why some people are born into one circumstance and others are born into another. But regardless of the circumstance, the point is to find God, to feel his love, and to be grateful. The point is to sense that “Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God has prepared for them that love him.” (1 Corinthians 2:9)

I understand there are people who find this all to be absurd. But what I don’t understand is why some people don’t seem to understand the concept of a loving and all powerful God who allows suffering for righteous purposes, and for our gain, and which we will one day understand, if not in this life, in the next. The concept is powerful and clear to me. I can conceive of such a Being and purpose to life and I believe it’s true. It’s one thing to understand the concept and to reject it, but another to not understand the concept. Many of the challenges that people make to my faith, show a lack of understanding of the concept.

Thoughtful comments?

Here's my take on it. Hopefully it helps you understand where I'm coming from:

Whatever God's purposes, if God is all-powerful, then he can accomplish those purposes without causing suffering. This means that no suffering can be necessary suffering... IOW, God could choose to have people suffer or not as he brings his goals into fruition - they could happen either way.

Since all suffering is optional to God, no suffering can be justified by saying that the suffering was a necessary side effect to accomplish some divine purpose. Therefore, all suffering needs to be justified on its own merits.

If an all-powerful god has caused someone to suffer, then it was specifically because he wanted that person to suffer and for no other reason. Can a god who values suffering for suffering's sake be called good?

Think of the analogy of a parent getting their child a needle: it hurts the child, but the parent gets it done out of love because of the benefit that the needle will bring. Still, if the parent had the option of getting the benefit without the pain to their child, they'd choose it.. again: out of love. The reason they don't is because we, as limited human beings, don't have a painless option.

But God as a parent would have that option. Along with the needle that hurts, parent God has every other option possible: needles that feel like nothing, needles that impart bliss instead of pain, and protective magic shields that keep all diseases out of the child and make needles redundant.

... yet out of all of those options, parent God tells the doctor "give my daughter the one that will make her cry."

And that's why I can't reconcile the existence of suffering with the idea of an all-powerful, loving god.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The idea of an all-powerful god that's an actor in history while also being all-loving and all-good just doesn't match up with reality, to me. It's too fraught with cognitive dissonance. Such an entity comes off as sadistic.

The only way a deity makes sense to me is as a pantheistic/panentheistic amoral semi-personal ultimate reality, like the Kali of Tantric Shaktism where She is the all-encompassing void that's the ultimate truth of existence and there's no such thing as duality (including moral dualities). But that's too nihilistic and dark for most people. It's not comforting in the way most people like. Some polytheistic ideas of deities make sense to me, too.

 

[joe1776]

On insignificant matters, I'm willing to take some things on faith. But, on anything important, my mind demands evidence. It's not a matter of choice for me. I can't do faith.

I wonder also if believers would be equally willing to accept a religion on faith regardless of which one they were born into. Do they believe they were just lucky to be born into the right time, place and religious tradition? Would they have accepted Zeus on faith?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Something else:

The people who sees God’s hand and feel gratitude see purpose in their challenges.

When people thank God for helping them, I generally take that as ingratitude... or at least as misplaced gratitude.

When someone gets delivered from some dire need, it's usually because of the help of other people - real people. As they say: give credit where credit is due. Thanking God in these situations, as opposed to the people involved, is pretty rude and demeaning, IMO... kind of like when the only person to get an award for a project is the one that nobody ever saw at a team meeting, let alone ever making a measurable contribution.

 

[BSM1]

Among people from all walks of life, different races, nationalities, cultures, economic circumstances, life experiences, degrees of suffering, education level, etc., there are people who sense God’s love and mercy and those who do not.

There are starving people who pray for food and who when they receive a mere morsel, see God’s hand. They sense God’s love and feel his compassion. They see a ray of heavenly light and sense the angels are near. While only a morsel, something spiritual happens and they are strengthened in their faith.

Then there are those who feel slighted and angry in the same circumstance. They see their morsel of bread and compare with the millionaire somewhere else. They feel no love from God. They don’t see his hand in bringing them any food. They conclude there is no God or if there is a God, he’s unfair and unloving and distant.

The people who sees God’s hand and feel gratitude see purpose in their challenges. They know that God sees a far larger picture than we see. He sees eternity. He sees our future there. Eventually whether in this life or the next, God will wipe away all tears and there will be joy. We will understand what we experienced and why and appreciate the spiritual growth.

When times have been the darkest for me (and I won’t try to compare to anyone else’s dark times on the planet), I have felt my faith challenged. But I have always seen God’s mercy in little or large ways. I sense a glimmer of light, the heavens open, and I sense there is purpose and meaning and God is with me. I see and sense his hand.

Faith and belief in a merciful God is not reserved for those who seem to have it all, nor is it reserved for those who seem to have so little and who suffer so much. I don’t know why some people are born into one circumstance and others are born into another. But regardless of the circumstance, the point is to find God, to feel his love, and to be grateful. The point is to sense that “Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God has prepared for them that love him.” (1 Corinthians 2:9)

I understand there are people who find this all to be absurd. But what I don’t understand is why some people don’t seem to understand the concept of a loving and all powerful God who allows suffering for righteous purposes, and for our gain, and which we will one day understand, if not in this life, in the next. The concept is powerful and clear to me. I can conceive of such a Being and purpose to life and I believe it’s true. It’s one thing to understand the concept and to reject it, but another to not understand the concept. Many of the challenges that people make to my faith, show a lack of understanding of the concept.

Thoughtful comments?

The main flaw in your thinking, IMHO, is that you can't accept that God is what put you in whatever circumstance that may befall you. Most people, again IMHO, lose there faith when they try to separate "God" and everything else. They seem to think that God punishes and rewards; if they only accept the premise that "God is" then suffering loses any meaning.

 

[Kenny]

An all powerful God who allows suffering for any reason is not all powerful. An all powerful God needs absolutely NOTHING from us. So all the unnecessary evil in the world is for no purpose.

Of course, that is within the parameters that you have set. Fortunately, He doesn't go by your parameters.

If you want judgment and justice it will have to come from secular law.

Yes... we see that perfect justice and judgment everywhere in the world and in these wonderful United States! A blind justice weighing in no matter how much money, position or power you have.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Among people from all walks of life, different races, nationalities, cultures, economic circumstances, life experiences, degrees of suffering, education level, etc., there are people who sense God’s love and mercy and those who do not.

There are starving people who pray for food and who when they receive a mere morsel, see God’s hand. They sense God’s love and feel his compassion. They see a ray of heavenly light and sense the angels are near. While only a morsel, something spiritual happens and they are strengthened in their faith.

Then there are those who feel slighted and angry in the same circumstance. They see their morsel of bread and compare with the millionaire somewhere else. They feel no love from God. They don’t see his hand in bringing them any food. They conclude there is no God or if there is a God, he’s unfair and unloving and distant.

The people who sees God’s hand and feel gratitude see purpose in their challenges. They know that God sees a far larger picture than we see. He sees eternity. He sees our future there. Eventually whether in this life or the next, God will wipe away all tears and there will be joy. We will understand what we experienced and why and appreciate the spiritual growth.

When times have been the darkest for me (and I won’t try to compare to anyone else’s dark times on the planet), I have felt my faith challenged. But I have always seen God’s mercy in little or large ways. I sense a glimmer of light, the heavens open, and I sense there is purpose and meaning and God is with me. I see and sense his hand.

Faith and belief in a merciful God is not reserved for those who seem to have it all, nor is it reserved for those who seem to have so little and who suffer so much. I don’t know why some people are born into one circumstance and others are born into another. But regardless of the circumstance, the point is to find God, to feel his love, and to be grateful. The point is to sense that “Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God has prepared for them that love him.” (1 Corinthians 2:9)

I understand there are people who find this all to be absurd. But what I don’t understand is why some people don’t seem to understand the concept of a loving and all powerful God who allows suffering for righteous purposes, and for our gain, and which we will one day understand, if not in this life, in the next. The concept is powerful and clear to me. I can conceive of such a Being and purpose to life and I believe it’s true. It’s one thing to understand the concept and to reject it, but another to not understand the concept. Many of the challenges that people make to my faith, show a lack of understanding of the concept.

Thoughtful comments?

Say you were starving. You prayer for food. You searched everywhere but couldnt find any. So you pray to god. Meanwhile, without you knowing it, someone drops food behind you. You turn around ane see no one. You look down and see food.

You believe this event was only tailoree by god's love and mercy. Your scripture (confirmed bias) proove this is true.

It is true but only to you and those who think as you do (confirmed bias). Its not true in general because the act of you praying was not an act of searching. Your proof of validity of your experience comes from confirmed bias (scripture and peers).

It is Not absured to attribute these type of experiences to god. Not all of us do; and, that is okay. We are not blind or lost because we dont attribute it to god. We are still grateful. I attribute it to my ancestors. You to god. Some feel blessings from The Buddha (I do not). Others just say its luck.

Neither are bad in and of itself.

What you have is self fulfilling prophecy (praying + searching =finding. Attribution to god instead of your act of searching). Confirmed bias. (Scripture, like unknown experiences, and peers who think the same confirm your experiences with this event).

So it comes from god.

But does it? In general? Is it universal or personal?

My thought...

It is bias, subjective, and highly personal. I was saved my my grandmother from being hit by a car. She passed away five years ago. I talk with my aunt daily. She passed away three weeks ago.

I have confirmed bias and SFP. That is okay. Thats life. Thats how we find meaning by finding patterns and interpreting the patterns to confirm our already known knowlege.

My issue is thinking you are the victim (absured) you are not. Thinking others "missed the boat." We didnt.

Its all personal. Keep it personal and your experiences become testimony. Paul, John, Peter, etc all shares their personal testimonies. The four authors of the gospel said the exact same story in different ways. Its all personal.

I feel your testimony is beautiful. Keep it testimony, and I will think you mirroring the gospels.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

There are starving people who pray for food and who when they receive a mere morsel, see God’s hand.

Then there are those who feel slighted and angry in the same circumstance.

I see this sort of false dichotomy played out quite a lot by theists, and Christians most especially. You're either in it, thanking God for all that you do, or you are selfish and unhappy and stuck in a rut of sin... there is never any other option.

It is most often stated without intent to state it, just as it is in your OP - likely completely by accident. You were probably trying your hardest to be fair and seem as if all you do is care about the people regardless their situation - however, giving only those 2 possible scenarios is a tell, in my opinion. It tells of a belief that you know the hearts of the others, even if you claim you don't. That you know the non-believer's lot in life is conceit and pride and that they are so much the worse for it that they are blinded to their own fault in their lack of comfort. That may describe some... but I believe I can read from your black and white casting of the situations that you believe it describes all - again, even if you would claim otherwise - you would do so only to indulge or placate those who would call you out on it - and only because you know that the stereotypical view you have is considered an undesirable thing to have.

It is easy to contemplate another possibility entirely - the person who understands the circumstance they are in, regardless the circumstance they are not in, and reacts to it. A person who does not call out to external forces for either benevolence or blame, merely living in the moment and attempting to obtain more moments.

It is literally impossible that every person receiving food as charity is either thanking God or angry - I know that you understand this, and will likely tell me as much. But then... why include the dichotomy at all? If thanking God is objectively the greatest option, why do you feel that describing that sort of "positive" reaction would not stand on its own?

 

[Scott C.]

I see this sort of false dichotomy played out quite a lot by theists, and Christians most especially. You're either in it, thanking God for all that you do, or you are selfish and unhappy and stuck in a rut of sin... there is never any other option.

It is most often stated without intent to state it, just as it is in your OP - likely completely by accident. You were probably trying your hardest to be fair and seem as if all you do is care about the people regardless their situation - however, giving only those 2 possible scenarios is a tell, in my opinion. It tells of a belief that you know the hearts of the others, even if you claim you don't. That you know the non-believer's lot in life is conceit and pride and that they are so much the worse for it that they are blinded to their own fault in their lack of comfort. That may describe some... but I believe I can read from your black and white casting of the situations that you believe it describes all - again, even if you would claim otherwise - you would do so only to indulge or placate those who would call you out on it - and only because you know that the stereotypical view you have is considered an undesirable thing to have.

It is easy to contemplate another possibility entirely - the person who understands the circumstance they are in, regardless the circumstance they are not in, and reacts to it. A person who does not call out to external forces for either benevolence or blame, merely living in the moment and attempting to obtain more moments.

It is literally impossible that every person receiving food as charity is either thanking God or angry - I know that you understand this, and will likely tell me as much. But then... why include the dichotomy at all? If thanking God is objectively the greatest option, why do you feel that describing that sort of "positive" reaction would not stand on its own?

Well stated. At the risk of you thinking I'm only trying to placate you, you did misread me a bit. Is there any of what you describe in me? Perhaps. But, as I was writing my post I stopped and said to myself "You're making it sound like there are only two types of people and two reactions to hardship, but that is certainly not the case". But I let it go as is, perhaps being too lazy to try to clarify and avoid this objection. Clearly there are ranges of views and reactions and attitudes towards adversity and towards God. I pointed out those on somewhat oppostite ends of the spectrum. But then, you knew this would be my response.

 

[Bartholomew]

That's Because people have to aspire for the Ultimate Gain for their faith rather than the immediate pain from their suffering.

they have to be desperately seeking the prize!

 

[osgart]

Mercy is a virtue. It's a good one to meditate on. How many of us can let go and forgive?

And how many people accept the mercy that is true when we need it?

Repentance and mercy go hand in hand. You can't accept mercy without repenting.

How far does mercy extend to the sinner?

Mercy as an intention toward others, and self , what exactly is mercy, as it applies to the heart, and what does it entail?

Mercy is a type of love I think. Perhaps love without trust.

Mercy is the desire to see people who need to repent, actually repent.

I bet a whole book can be written on the subject of mercy.

Finally, is there anyone who doesn't need mercy, anyone deserving?

 

[Scott C.]

I can respect your faith and see that it brings meaning and purpose to your life, and comforts you when things are difficult. But, how can you be 100% certain that these experiences are actually attributable to a God and not just manifestations of your desire for God to exist? I certainly understand that the idea of a purposeless universe, or the idea that this life is all there is to existence, is troubling. But just because something is troubling is no reason to disbelieve it. Likewise, just because something brings you comfort is no reason to believe it. I won't argue against your position, and I won't argue for a nihilistic position either. But, to claim with absolute certainty that a personal God exists while providing no evidence other than subjective gut feelings and to feel compelled to impose this essentially baseless belief on others is very problematic to me.

I don't think I started to believe in God, so that I could find meaning and comfort. For me, when I was about 14 years old, I started thinking about how I had been taught my whole life that there is a God. For some reason, the question became heavy on me and I really wanted to know if he really exists. The question seemed incredibly important and even mind blowing. I studied, I prayed, I thought deeply. I'm fully convinced God answered my prayers through experience and the Spirit. I put together the experiences and the Spirit, matched it up with the scriptures I read, the doctrine, the beauties of the plan of salvation, the purpose of Christ as Redeemer, the testimonies of others, credible miraculous stories, and then 50 more years of living it and observing the results... I conclude it's true. Can I say it with 100% certainty? Maybe not quite, but almost. Everyone probably falls into confirmation bias to some extent and may err as a result. But I feel my experience has planted the belief very deeply and I feel a great deal of certainty. I can only invite others to put it to the test and measure the results for themselves.

 

[Scott C.]

I totally agree with the overall heart of what you are saying and certainly so much truth in it. You can be rich and see God's mercy or not be happy at all or be poor and see God's mercy or not be happy at all.

It is the above statement that I think taught but not correct. There are sufferings that God allows (persecution for righteousness sake) but ther are sufferings that God doesn't want and He wants His body to eliminate because of the Cross.

I believe suffering comes from different sources. It comes from sin, from bad decisions (not sins), from the sins of others, from the bad decisions (not sins) of others, by pure accident, and I'm sure I'm leaving things out. In all cases, I believe we can and should place our burdens on the Lord and allow them to be consumed by his atonement and grace. Certainly God does not want me to inflict pain and suffering on my neighbor, but if I choose to do so, against God's will, I believe that God will bless that neighbor and help them to grow as a result of their trial.

 

[Scott C.]

I don't see the concept as absurd, just unnecessary.

You can pray for food, I don't think it makes a difference to whether you actually get food or not.

I don't need a God to prevent tears or provide joy. I can have and feel plenty of love and compassion without God.

So I always ask what benefit does a belief in God have that I can't just as easily have without a belief in God.

But I believe the love, joy and compassion you feel comes from the God in whom you do not believe. Belief in God is not essential to your receiving gifts from God (at least not in all cases). So I would say that yes you and I do need God for joy, just as we need him for life.