Faith is an Assurance

[FFH]

Hebrews 11: 1 (King James)

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Hebrews 11: 1 (Joseph Smith inspired version)

Now faith is an assurance of things hoped for, the evidence of thngs not seen.


Inspired scriptures should be the source of our fath/assurance of a life eternal...

 

[Willamena]

What are we to debate?

 

[FFH]

What are we to debate?

What is faith?

I believe inspired scriptures are the single most important source of faith.

Can we define faith in other ways?

For instance can we gain faith through prayer, meditation, etc?

All faiths may respond, for I believe there is truth in all faiths and they are all necessary for human growth...

Each one of us is at a different level of faith, which is an assurance that we will live for eternity in worlds best representing our particular faith..

Vvarying degrees of fear replace varying degrees of faith and so we miss out on all that faith has to offer, when we give into fears.

 

[Prometheus]

Faith is believing something even when evidence contradicts you.

The funny thing is, you could be the most skeptical person in the world when it comes to politics, archeology, history, astrology, biology, etc., etc. Yet as soon as your gaze shifts toward religion, well, evidence be damned.

Only 99% of scientists disagree with you, but hey, you have faith, so it's all gravy, baby.

 

[Rolling_Stone]

The definition of faith Paul gives for "faith" is too ambigious. I cringe when people equate faith with certainty in a body of ideas. "Faith is the substance of things hoped for" means it is the power to live as though our fondest hopes are true. "The evidence of things unseen" doesn't, I hope, mean it serves as evidence of ideas because ideas are among the things see and obviously controversial.

As I said in other posts: faith is living of an ideal (hope) represented by ideas (belief). Beliefs are ideally open to change because if they don't change we don't grow.

The funny thing is, you could be the most skeptical person in the world when it comes to politics, archeology, history, astrology, biology, etc., etc. Yet as soon as your gaze shifts toward religion, well, evidence be damned.

Not always true. Kinda silly to make it a blanket statement.

 

[Katzpur]

Faith is believing something even when evidence contradicts you.

I'm not following your reasoning here. Why would there need to be contradictory evidence? Why not just the absence of evidence? If I have faith that something I can't see exists, I'm believing without needing evidence. The fact that I can't see something is not necessarily evidence that it doesn't exist.

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

The fact that I can't see something is not necessarily evidence that it doesn't exist.

I agree wholeheartedly with you. Just because we as a people have never witnessed it or never seen it or can't measure it, does not mean that it isn't there. I have always thought this train of thought was the heights of arrogance. Here we are a people, who admittedly have limited knowledge. There are things in this world and even in our own bodies we haven't figured out yet. How long has mankind been here, and just within the last few centuries have we really advanced in any knowledge and it is still only a small portion of it. We haven't figured out all the nuances and info to be gained from the ocean, the weather, and all the other natural phenomenon. Let's not even talk about all the stuff in space we don't know. We haven't been all around the moon, haven't figured out all the phases of the sun, don't know what blackholes really are, and haven't scratched the surface of space in general. All we can do is take an educated guess about that stuff. This same human, with limited knowledge and in fact cannot gain all knowledge and admits as much, can say without doubt that God does not exist. It's just as laughable from this side as it is from theirs.

 

[FFH]

Only 99% of scientists disagree with you

So you beleive man rather than what the spirit of God may dictate to your heart and mind?

What the spirit dictates to a man's heart may contradict what is sold to us as fact, when in reality it may just be another theory, based on that particular scientist's set of beliefs.

We see what we want to see, according to our beliefs...

It works both ways.

Who then is right and how can we discern the truth from the lies fed to us by the world?.

Faith is an assurance of truth, and we can gain assurance of all truth, through direct inspiration from God, after studying all the facts.

 

[cardero]

FFH writes: Who then is right and how can we discern the truth from the lies fed to us by the world?

Seek the Truth yourself and exercise the lesson of patience and understanding when it does not manifest itself immediately.

FFH writes Faith is an assurance of truth and we can gain assurance of all truth by direct inspiration from God after studying all the facts.

I have seen people starve in the name of faith. I am of the understanding that people have been murdered and have died for faith. I have seen Truth ignored for the preference of defending and keeping one’s faith. I have seen people retreat and refuse the responsibility to become intelligent in favor of faith. I have known people to suffer for not only their faith but to suffer at the faith of others. I have witnessed faith betray, segregate, disrespect, persecute, disappoint, discourage, disenchant, disillusion. I have yet to see a practical, beneficial, all-encompassing use for faith except the possibility to use it to name my daughter.


Faith is an excuse bestowed on people by themselves or another individual who is supposed to K(NOW), but doesn't. Faith is another way of saying " you will just have to take my word for it," which is contrary to belief and detrimental to UNDERSTANDING. Faith is not trust or TRUTH. Faith is not free.

HELLO IT’S ME: An Interview With GOD
Chapter: Belief, Faith, Hope and Joy
Pg: 167

 

[FFH]

I have seen people starve in the name of faith. I am of the understanding that people have been murdered and have died for faith. I have seen Truth ignored for the preference of defending and keeping one’s faith. I have seen people retreat and refuse the responsibility to become intelligent in favor of faith. I have known people to suffer for not only their faith but to suffer at the faith of others. I have witnessed faith betray, segregate, disrespect, persecute, disappoint, discourage, disenchant, disillusion. I have yet to see a practical, beneficial, all-encompassing use for faith except the possibility to use it to name my daughter

Yes, we need to keep tabs on ourselves so we do not become a God in our own mind.

My mother reminded me of this just a few months ago. "you're not God" she said, which I thought was odd for her to say. Was I acting like I was God or speaking as if I knew the mind of God? How far had I slipped into this mode?

We are all dependant upon God for everything that we have and are.

God wants to be acknowledged as the one who has made everything we have achieved or have in our lives, or will achieve or have, possible.

Faith is an excuse bestowed on people by themselves or another individual who is supposed to K(NOW), but doesn't. Faith is another way of saying " you will just have to take my word for it," which is contrary to belief and detrimental to UNDERSTANDING. Faith is not trust or TRUTH. Faith is not free.

Will have to respectfully disagree.

Faith does not have to rule out science, it just needs to rule out bad science..

 

[cardero]

I believe GOD wants us to acknowledge that we have the intelligence, the reasoning skills and the determination to arrive at our Truths. Since GOD is a BEing of Truth He does not expect us to put faith in everything that drips off his tongue, He expects us to PROVE this understanding for ourselves, only then can we and GOD receive the joy of understanding and only than can we confidently and accurately apply our Truths.

FFH writes: Faith does not have to rule out science and other truths, it just needs to rule out bad science and other lies fed to us by the world..

We have to become objectively unattached to our beliefs until they become Truth. Never should we become passionate about our beliefs to let our beliefs rule our hearts or our mind because in the light of undeniable evidence there may be a time where we will have to discard or upgrade our beliefs and if one has applied faith, it will most assuredly be a difficult separation.

 

[FFH]

I believe GOD wants us to acknowledge that we have the intelligence, the reasoning skills and the determination to arrive at our Truths. Since GOD is a BEing of Truth He does not expect us to put faith in everything that drips off his tongue, He expects us to PROVE this understanding for ourselves, only then can we and GOD receive the joy of understanding and only than can we confidently and accurately apply our Truths.

I agree and I believe it's very possinle to move from faith to a perfect knowledge of any given truth, even if that truth may be unprovable, while in this life, or unseen.

We have to become objectively unattached to our beliefs until they become Truth. Never should we become passionate about our beliefs to let our beliefs rule our hearts or our mind because in the light of undeniable evidence there may be a time where we will have to discard or upgrade our beliefs and if one has applied faith, it will most assuredly be a difficult separation.

So true.

 

[joeboonda]

Ephesians 2:8

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

Faith is a gift of God, not 'from yourselves'.

Prophecies fulfilled, scientific, historical, archeological, medical, manuscriptural, evidence, eye-witness testimony, God's Word, all support my faith, the evidence for Jesus Christ being the King of Kings and Lord of Lords is utterly overwhelming, makes having faith ridiculously easy.

 

[cardero]

Prove all things, hold fast that which is good, I Thess. 5.21

Truth good, faith bad.

 

[Chevalier Violet]

I agree with you:

Faith in science is an assurance.
Faith in Jesus is an assurance.
Faith in animism is an assurance.
Faith in the power of agronomy is an assurance.
Faith in my local doctor is an assurance.

But this is not unique to religion. Faith in any belief at all is quite reassuring.

And what if that faith is true? Hypothetically, it would be both reassuring and true.

But I can't really think of any way we could know when a faith (in science or religion or sociology) is true. That's why we just make our best guesses and try to live our lives.

CV

 

[matthew.william]

Faith is "The substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Hebrews 11:1

So there are two versions of faith

1. Faith is the belief in something you can't see ("evidence of things not seen")

Now I can't see gravity, but I believe in it. Nobody has seen gravity (cause) but we it's effects all around us. We observe effects to find the cause, and form a theory and test the boundaries.

2. Faith believes something will happen that hasn't happened yet ("substance of things hoped for")

Now, the sun hasn't set yet, but I believe it will because it always has. This is called knowledge based faith. However, if the sun for some reason does NOT set, my knowledge based faith is gone in an instant. This is where the first kind of faith comes in. I find out the cause of the unexpected effects through investigation and form a theory around the results. When we can't see the causes, we learn to control them by setting up situations and determining the results. We are finding the boundaries. The process is intentional and focused on gaining knowledge.

This is Biblical faith.

~matthew.william~

 

[Prometheus]

I'm not following your reasoning here. Why would there need to be contradictory evidence? Why not just the absence of evidence? If I have faith that something I can't see exists, I'm believing without needing evidence. The fact that I can't see something is not necessarily evidence that it doesn't exist.

To me, absence of evidence is contradictory evidence. When you believe something exists but have no evidence that it does, then that lack of evidence is contradictory to your theory.

 

[matthew.william]

To me, absence of evidence is contradictory evidence. When you believe something exists but have no evidence that it does, then that lack of evidence is contradictory to your theory.

Do you have evidence that God doesn't exist? You can't prove something doesn't exist, but you accept it as fact that God doesn't exist. Sounds like faith, according to your definition of it.

~matthew.william~