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Failed Matthew 24 Prophecies & The Meaning of "this generation"

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Hubert Farnsworth, Aug 7, 2019.

  1. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    I have made a few threads on this topic in the past, however, I thought I would make a thread that specifically focuses in on Matthew 24, and more concisely and carefully explain why the context of Matthew 24:34 indicates that it is a failed prophecy. When I point out to Christians that Matthew 24 erroneously predicts Jesus to return in the 1st century AD, many of them make the claim that "this generation" referred to in verse 34 does not refer to the generation alive at the time, but instead refers to some future generation. Let's examine the context of these verses to learn why this attempt to argue that the prophecy did not fail is in fact incorrect.

    Matthew 24:32-34:

    32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when YOU see all these things, YOU know that it is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

    As I emphasized in the passage, Jesus was speaking to his disciples in second person (hence the "YOU"), and directly telling them that they would see these signs indicating his return was imminent. Thus, the prophecy has clearly failed. To make things even more clear that the generation in question is in fact the one alive at the time, let us consider the same prophecy in Matthew 16, specifically Matthew 16:28:

    Truly I tell you, SOME WHO ARE STANDING HERE will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.

    Thus, we can conclude that the prophecy that the second coming of Christ would take place during the lifetimes of the individuals alive in Jesus' generation has failed. To make matters even more embarrassing for the bible, the failed prophecies are repeated in Matthew 10:23, Mark 9:1, Mark 13:30, Luke 9:27, and Luke 21:32. I invite the reader to investigate these passages further.
     
  2. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member
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    I am a preterist so I don't think his prophecy failed. I think it already happened.
     
  3. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    The word "know" (ginōskete), indicates continues ongoing (even now) process. This part encompass event of many centuries.
     
  4. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    These passages are explained w/ help from the surrounding context, but I will try to explain this part....
    This was fulfilled (for Peter, James, and John) at Jesus’ Transfiguration 8 days later, where Jesus’ “face shone as the sun, and his outer garments became brilliant as the light.” (Mt 17:1-9;Mr 9:2-10; Lu 9:28-36)

    “The transfiguration.....showed that Jesus had God’s approval, and it was a foreview of his future glory and Kingdom power.”

    Transfiguration — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

    Since we all need the “Father, Lord of Heaven and Earth,” (Jehovah), to help us understand the Scriptures accurately (Luke 10:21), I invite you to come learn about Him (John 17:3).
     
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  5. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Jesus also said

    "And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" (John 11:26)

    The problem is not that there is a failed prophecy. The problem is that people don't understand Jesus.

    John 6:60-64
    60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
    61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
    62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
    63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

    Matthew 13:19
    19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
     
  6. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    This is the Parable of the fig tree.

    Parable of the Budding Fig Tree - Wikipedia

    "The fig tree represents the nation of Israel being politically reestablished in their land once again. Accordingly, when the modern state of Israel was formed on May 14, 1948, Hal Lindseyconcluded that we are in the last generation."

    We are in the last generation.

    This is true to this day. As not a single person that has passed away been judged as of yet. We all will be judged after the end times together.
     
  7. Nimos

    Nimos Active Member

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    I think you have the correct idea, Christianity, Judaism which it really was at the time, was for the most part apocalyptic, meaning that they expected the Messiah to come sooner than later. Paul for instance thought this and also in Revelation, this is presented as something that is right around the corner and what will bring down Rome etc. So I think people living at the time thought that all this that Jesus talked about would happen very soon, what caused a lot of issues for Jesus and his followers, were when he were crucified, because that was not what were meant to happen according to scriptures.

    For instance in Thessalonia 1 5:1

    1 Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

    If Paul and those he wrote, thought that Jesus would return in like 1000 years, why would he write this to them? I think it clearly demonstrate that the opinion was that Jesus would come soon, so Paul is telling them to be patience and that it can happen at any time.

    Since it never happened as it was suppose to, these scriptures have then been interpret to mean other things and that these are later generations etc. But according to ancient history it doesn't fit with what they (the Jews) believed. So its first after Paul and all these and when Christianity really take off, that these prophecies are understood as we see them today, but I don't think you will find a lot of support in the bible that this is also what the Jews believed back them.
     
  8. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member
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    LOLOL.. Hal Lindsey is a con artist.

    Fig trees produce two crops every year, but only one of them may be edible. The first crop, called the breba crop, occurs relatively early in the year on the previous year's growth.
     
  9. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member
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    Paul died before the destruction of the temple and the end of Temple Judaism. He didn't live to see the new era.
     
  10. Uncommon Sense

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    For a literalist, they sure would be failures.

    It’s a process of becoming softened up, and tender inside. And all of those things represent things, experiences occurring within.
     
  11. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Or just misinterpreted by people who can't see the forest for the trees perhaps. :oops:

    Or not.... o_O

    The prophesy of Matthew 24 had two fulfillments as we see in the wording....some of the prophesy was fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70CE. But other features of the prophesy relate to the second coming of Christ...or what Jesus more correctly calls his "presence"....this is the period of time that the Bible calls "the last days" or what Daniel describes as "the time of the end". (2 Timothy 3:1-5; Daniel 12:4; 9-10)

    The "YOU" is those of Jesus' disciples living in the time periods of both fulfillments of this prophesy, who will rule with him in heaven. That includes those living at the present....we have been in "the time of the end" since 1914, according to Daniel's prophesy.

    As @Hockeycowboy has explained, this was fulfilled in the transfiguration. Three of Jesus' apostles saw him in his glorified state as King of God's Kingdom. So it was fulfilled.

    He gave a sign of his "presence", (parousia) not of his "coming" (erchomai) because his "presence" had to come first....it needed a sign to identify it because Jesus becoming King and beginning his reign was seen in heaven by Daniel 500 years before Jesus was even born. (Daniel 7:13-14) He had to rule for a time "in the midst of his enemies" (Psalm 110:1-2) His return was not to bring peace right away....but to divide mankind in "sheep and goats" during which time unprecedented warfare, major earthquakes, disease and pestilence, famine, increase in crime and violence and love virtually disappearing from the world. These were to be just "the beginning of pangs of distress".

    We are living in the last days and just like it was in Noah's day, no one wants to heed God's warning in order to save themselves from what is coming....except it isn't going to be a flood that will sweep the world this time....

    Want more scriptural references to the last days of this present system of things when Jesus is to be manifest to judge the world?.....

    IDENTIFYING MARKS OF THE LAST DAYS

    Unprecedented warfare.—Matthew 24:7; Revelation 6:4

    Famine.—Matthew 24:7; Revelation 6:5, 6, 8

    Pestilences.—Luke 21:11; Revelation 6:8

    Increasing lawlessness.—Matthew 24:12

    Earthquakes.—Matthew 24:7

    Critical times hard to deal with.—2 Timothy 3:1

    Inordinate love of money.—2 Timothy 3:2

    Disobedience to parents.—2 Timothy 3:2

    A lack of natural affection.—2 Timothy 3:3

    Loving pleasures rather than God.—2 Timothy 3:4

    A lack of self-control.—2 Timothy 3:3

    Without love of goodness.—2 Timothy 3:3

    Taking no note of the impending danger.—Matthew 24:39

    Ridiculers rejecting proof of the last days.—2 Peter 3:3, 4

    Global preaching of God’s Kingdom.—Matthew 24:14

    Wait for it.......we believe that the fulfillment is almost complete.
     
  12. allright

    allright Active Member

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    good grief
    try reading the whole passage.
    Mathew 24:36 Jesus says only the Father knows the time, so how could he tell the disciples it would be in their lifetime
    if he didnt know

    Acts1:7 Jesus directly tells his disciples its not for them to know the times and the seasons. only the Father knows
     
  13. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    The "day and hour". The signs would be observed, and indicate the time-period.

    (As a side-point: In This passage, Jesus clearly reveals that he is not the Father, or Yahweh.)
     
  14. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    This could not be a fulfillment of the prophecy in Matthew 16:28, since the "Son of Man" was not "coming" in his kingdom during the transfiguration story. Since he was already on earth at the time, and had not departed anywhere, he could not be "coming" from anywhere.
     
  15. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    How do you know the things didn’t happen already?

    I think that is not about same matter, because it came true after few days as said in this:


    After six days, Jesus took with him Peter, James, and John his brother, and brought them up into a high mountain by themselves. He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his garments became as white as the light. He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his garments became as white as the light.

    Matt. 17:1-3
     
  16. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member
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    A generation in the Bible is 40 years.
     
  17. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    As I said in post #14, Matt. 16:28 states that "Some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man COMING in his kingdom."

    In the transfiguration story, the Son of Man was not "coming" from anywhere. The word "COMING" implies a return after a departure, a.k.a. the second coming of Jesus. Clearly Jesus did not come in his kingdom six days later.
     
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