Extreme zealots

[Maya3]

My husband and I had a long conversation in the car last night. We spoke about religious fanatics and why people are SO extreme sometimes.
We have two in our own family, two different religions, Orthodox Judaism, and Catholic. I´m not talking about someone who is deeply religious, I´m talking about taking it to such an extreme that it affects other people in the family in extreme ways even if the rest of the family is not part of the religion.

Anyway so during our conversation we were trying to figure out why some people get like this? Are they afraid? Is it superstition? Afraid of God's punishment?

As we were talking I kept saying, that Hinduism is nothing like that, I have never met or spoken to a Hindu who practices their religion like this.
But then I thought of the Shiva worshippers who live with the dead and their funeral pyres. I could certainly call them extreme, but it is a very small minority.

SO... after this long post, my questions are: Do we have this kind of extremism in our religion?

Why do you think that some people get so extreme in their beliefs?

Maya

 

[Vinayaka]

I think we do, Maya, but they are in the fringe. The aghori sadhus are out there on their own, and not bothering any previous families, because they have renounced that. Unless the family doesn't get the idea that a sadhu's life is one to be admired, then the family would have been okay with it.

I have met a few 'extreme' converts who could be quite disruptive but that's minority. Most Hindus are, in my experience, quite shy about it actually and remain non-aggressive.

My personal take on why is that they're really just trying to convince themselves, and that they are, like the braggart, actually very insecure in their own faith.

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

There definitely are. It's important to remember that in any religion or philosphy, there are fierce defenders (Fierce to the point of being distructive). But like V said, I believe they are on the fringe, not just in Hinduism but in other religions. We just hear about them because they yell the loudest.

As to why? I suspect fear, which has it's root in a bloated Ego. The ego is very interested in it's own survival and if part of that survival mean identifying a certain belief or philosophy as essentially "you" you will go to extremes to protect that even if it means hurting others.

:camp:

 

[Sumit]

But then I thought of the Shiva worshippers who live with the dead and their funeral pyres. I could certainly call them extreme, but it is a very small minority.

Sadhus living in Himalayas or Aghoris in cremation have no family and social life, these people have renounced the world. They are happy in their own and do not affect others. Such extremism is not bad, I would love to live their life.

SO... after this long post, my questions are: Do we have this kind of extremism in our religion?

Yes, we have and since very ancient times. Remember Mirabai, wasn't she extreme in her devotion to Krishna or Vamakhepa and his devotion to Tara, Valmiki and Sita's devotion to Rama.

Why do you think that some people get so extreme in their beliefs?

Maya

To get mokesh in single lifetime.

 

[Maya3]

Thanks everyone,

I think that you are right when you say that they are trying to convince themselves. It is more about their own ego than anything else.

If people do it on their own for their own reasons to reach Moksha, I feel different about it.
What bothers me is when they are affecting others. In my case, without going into too many specifics, this person went against her own mothers wishes about her funeral, insisted that it had to be done a certain way on a certain day which meant that the majority of their mothers friends AND my sister in law missed her own mothers funeral!!
The funeral could easily have been held two days later, and everyone would have been able to attend, but no.
Sorry I'm venting a bit here. But we just found out these details yesterday, this is what led to our long car conversation last night.

Taking a deep breath.

Maya

 

[Vinayaka]

Yes, that's tough, when a dominating person walks all over everyone else. Who says the meek shall inherit the earth?

 

[Poeticus]

Thanks everyone,

I think that you are right when you say that they are trying to convince themselves. It is more about their own ego than anything else.

If people do it on their own for their own reasons to reach Moksha, I feel different about it.
What bothers me is when they affecting others. In my case, without going into too many specifics, this person went against her own mothers wishes about her funeral, insisted that it had to be done a certain way on a certain day which meant that the majority of their mothers friends AND my sister in law missed her own mothers funeral!!
The funeral could easily have been held two days later, and everyone would have been able to attend, but no.
Sorry I'm venting a bit here. But we just found out these details yesterday, this is what led to our long car conversation last night.

Taking a deep breath.

Maya

My condolences, Maya.

But yes, ego seems to have a strong part in situations like these.
And this isn't even about healthy, natural, competitive like pride -
this is regressive mentality that is more about "Look at me" and
less about "can I do better ? and how can I help ?" ...​

 

[Maya3]

Thank you both,

It was my sister in laws mother who died, she was in her late 90's, a very sweet lady, but i didn't know her too well. It was two years ago, but it was not until yesterday that we found out what really happened. We had a somewhat milder version told to us before.

But yes, there was not much about helping and comforting here, more look at me, that is for sure.

Maya

 

[Vinayaka]

I avoid, but sometimes that is impossible, so you just have to suck it up, I guess, and not let it really get to you. Trying to change those types is such a futile effort.

When I announced my retirement the social convener on staff came and asked me what I wanted for a party, and I said 'Nothing at all' and then she just went ahead and planned a big party. People like that don't have ears unfortunately. It's just all about them.

It takes strong people to take them on, and often the emotional turmoil you know you're going to go through just isn't worth it.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Do we have this kind of extremism in our religion?

Yes, there are people in Hinduism who have strong views (I am one of them). This is because either Hindus are treated badly in Pakistan and Bangladesh, or the evangelists convert our simple people who do not know what they are getting into. My universality ends there in Vyavaharika. I am very protective about my Hinduism.

 

[ShivaFan]

Oh, we certainly do have zealots and extremists in Hinduism. I might have been one of them in my late teens and very early 20's. You actually do change typically as you grow older, or have a family. Now, I do not put Sadhus in this category, there are some who eat dead from the Ganges but very, very few and many who claim this are fakirs and fakers who want to use fear to get donations and stuff. But most Sadhus are heroes.

But I am talking about elitists and racial extremists, and those types, they exist.

There is also historical roots to some forms of reaction, and may go overboard in some cases. Besides being a Hindu, I am also an American, and like many Americans I guess I am very biased against Islam, but there are historical roots to that.

Sometimes there is a place and time for extremism, but mostly it is a problem because you are now "thinking" emotionally and not using logic or yoga.... and then you actually make some real stupid mistakes that end up hurting yourself, your objective, or "God's plan" if you will.

There is no answer to this, other than reform when possible and one day at a time.

Om Namah Sivaya

 

[Vinayaka]

I think the kind of zealot Maya is referring to is the one that puts it's nose into everyone else's business because the religion, for them, overwhelms any common sense. It's sort of the 'my way or the highway' mentality. It's one thing to be proud and defensive, standing yup for your rights, but it's another to be pushing it on everyone else.

Ive seen it. We had a lay volunteer priest here who, after helping out for 6 months or so, decided to start telling the resident priest how to do it the 'right' way. In other words, 'his' way. This was the same chap who refused teertham from me one day when I was asked by the priest to hand it out.

Eventually the board had to intervene and let him know his volunteer services were no longer welcome. Now he comes by once or twice a year, but you can feel the tension in the air when he does. You just feel like giving him a million bucks so he'd go start his own temple.

In my brother's family, he has a brother-in-law who's an evangelical type. They had to stop inviting him to family get-togethers. Who wants to listen to that kind or rant all day? They want to have a casual beer, sit around and enjoy the day, not listen to a preacher.

I NEVER talk religion with my 'old' family. It's a futile exercise and may cause disharmony.

 

[Maya3]

I think the kind of zealot Maya is referring to is the one that puts it's nose into everyone else's business because the religion, for them, overwhelms any common sense. It's sort of the 'my way or the highway' mentality. It's one thing to be proud and defensive, standing yup for your rights, but it's another to be pushing it on everyone else.

Ive seen it. We had a lay volunteer priest here who, after helping out for 6 months or so, decided to start telling the resident priest how to do it the 'right' way. In other words, 'his' way. This was the same chap who refused teertham from me one day when I was asked by the priest to hand it out.

Eventually the board had to intervene and let him know his volunteer services were no longer welcome. Now he comes by once or twice a year, but you can feel the tension in the air when he does. You just feel like giving him a million bucks so he'd go start his own temple.

In my brother's family, he has a brother-in-law who's an evangelical type. They had to stop inviting him to family get-togethers. Who wants to listen to that kind or rant all day? They want to have a casual beer, sit around and enjoy the day, not listen to a preacher.

I NEVER talk religion with my 'old' family. It's a futile exercise and may cause disharmony.

Thanks Vinayaka, yes I'm talking about people that are pushing their own religion on people they know are not part of that religion or even of the same branch of their religion.
This is very different from someone who leaves their family and meditates in a cave for several years or something like that.

Sorry about your brothers brother in law. That is so sad, and that preacher got the exact opposite of what he was probably trying to achieve.

Maya

 

[Vinayaka]

Thanks Vinayaka, yes I'm talking about people that are pushing their own religion on people they know are not part of that religion or even of the same branch of their religion.
Maya

Exactly why Hindus don't proselytize and aren't about to start any time soon. Who wants to volunteer to be hated by just about everyone around?

The poor guy at our temple really has very few friends. Those that do get to know him usually move on. It's sad.