1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Extraterrestrials as Ultraterrestrials

Discussion in 'Paranormal Activities' started by Musing Bassist, Apr 27, 2021.

  1. Musing Bassist

    Musing Bassist Mihi Quaestio Factus Sum

    Joined:
    May 18, 2014
    Messages:
    2,788
    Ratings:
    +1,360
    Religion:
    Ordinariate Catholic
    I've been going down a rabbit hole lately reading books by John Keel. The paranormal is a guilty pleasure of mine.

    Anyway, since about the 1950's people from all over the world have claimed to have been abducted by aliens. The most common (but by no means only) type of being described by these 'abductees' are creatures we have come to know as 'the greys'. Indeed the image of the grey alien has become so iconic that I need not give any description.

    Typically, those who are abducted by these beings describe being subjected to various medical procedures that usually focus on the extraction of sex cells. Many further claim to encounter human-alien hybrids (often children) on board with the regular aliens. Sometimes the abductees are given messages either warning of impending disaster set to afflict the Earth or alternatively, that the said abductee is special and has a role to play in bringing about a new era where mankind will attain to a higher level of consciousness. In any case, the abductees usually have little to no memory of the abduction. Usually they retain only fragments remembered in dreams or after having undergone hypnosis.

    Accepting this data. Many alien abduction investigators believe that the aliens are engaged in a hybridization program with the ultimate goal of merging with us into a new species to occupy the Earth. And this is a reasonable conclusion if we take many of the abductee claims at face-value.

    A minority of investigators however propose something all together different. That what the abductees think they remember is an illusion carefully crafted by these beings to mislead those who accept the abduction phenomenon. John Keel and Jacques Vallée are two investigators who come to mind. They posit what has become known as the 'interdimensional hypothesis'. According to the interdimensional hypothesis what presents itself to us as extraterrestrial is in fact an intelligence native to Earth.

    This intelligence has interacted with mankind in various guises since the beginning. In a nutshell, the demons of yesterday are the aliens of today. Indeed I believe it was Jacques Vallée who noted that the so-called aliens behave in ways reminiscent of many classic descriptions of the demonic.

    John Keel calls them 'ultraterrestrials'. These ultraterrestrials exist in a state that is imperceptible to humans. Nonetheless these beings can (either at will or under certain circumstances) manifest themselves to us. They can communicate with us and take on any form they wish. John Keel in particular believes that these ultraterrestrials are behind all paranormal phenomena. Alien abductions, demonic possessions, ghosts, spirit channelling, poltergeist activity. They have innumerable masks and they delight in deception. Whatever these things tell you it is almost certainly intended to mislead you. They are habitual liars.

    Whether we accept John Keel's idea of ultraterrestrials specifically, or just the interdimensional hypothesis in general, these investigators come to this conclusion because the alien abduction phenomenon makes no sense under the prism of extraterrestrial visitation. Dr Karla Turner relates many accounts wherein the alien abductors treat their abductees in blatantly sadistic ways. Including sadistic sexual assaults on children. If these beings simply require DNA samples then their conduct in so many cases is nonsensical. If you only need a DNA sample then it makes no sense to rape a child and his grandmother (as told in Masquerade of Angels). It makes no sense to give abductees bogus prophesies that never eventuate nor does it make sense to prattle on about 'universal oneness' and 'intergalactic brotherhood'. Does it make sense that an intelligent extraterrestrial species would travel vast distances to Earth just to terrify and abuse random humans at 3AM in the morning?

    John Keel states that the UFO investigators are so attached to the idea of extraterrestrial visitation that they fail to see the wider picture. These beings are manipulative and sadistic and deliberately cloak the whole phenomenon in contradiction and absurdity. In the Victorian times they posed as bearded airship pilots, today they pose as various forms of extraterrestrial.

    The conclusion is that there is nothing useful to learn from this phenomenon. Whatever it is it is intended to deceive. And I agree with this view. That if there is anything to any of this it is the work of an invisible and deceptive intelligence that is clearly far from benevolent.

    [​IMG]
     
    #1 Musing Bassist, Apr 27, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2021
    • Creative Creative x 3
    • Like Like x 2
  2. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    15,012
    Ratings:
    +5,504
    Religion:
    Advaita and Spiritualist and Pantheist
    I agree with some of what you have to say but I think the 'sinister' side may have some aspects of truth to it but I don't think it should be overplayed. I still feel that 'good' is in ultra-control and that any sinister forces have a limited reach.

    This statement strikes me as a bit too extreme: John Keel in particular believes that these ultraterrestrials are behind all paranormal phenomena. Alien abductions, demonic possessions, ghosts, spirit channelling, poltergeist activity.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2019
    Messages:
    6,763
    Ratings:
    +5,859
    Religion:
    none
    Central to the standard as well as Keel's argument seems to be an alien race.
    Intelligence can I not detect either way. They both seem pretty dumb to me.
    Agency of an earth based group (this dimension) seems more probable.
     
  4. Musing Bassist

    Musing Bassist Mihi Quaestio Factus Sum

    Joined:
    May 18, 2014
    Messages:
    2,788
    Ratings:
    +1,360
    Religion:
    Ordinariate Catholic
    I don't necessarily reject this. In that the negative forces in this world are constrained in their activities by the good.

    But in terms of the alien abduction phenomenon specifically, I think the horrific nature of it alone is a strong augment that whatever is behind it is not friendly. It is not benevolent to prowl about in the dead of night ripping people out of their cars and beds. To assault people with invasive 'procedures' yet alone the numerous cases which detail blatant sexual assault by these beings. We also know that whatever these things are they're not particularly forthcoming or honest with us.

    That is his view anyway. He notes common patterns across most forms of paranormal activity and thus reasons that it is likely that it all comes from the same source. I do think he stretches a bit here.

    We know and have known for quite some time that there is much in reality that transcends what our physical senses can detect. I think the existence of the paranormal is near certain. In part due to my own reading and also in part due to what I myself have experienced. That doesn't mean John Keel's notion of ultraterrestrials is correct or that we shouldn't be skeptical of paranormal claims. But I do think the materialist worldview is almost certainly wrong. Just because we can't see it doesn't mean it isn't real.
     
    #4 Musing Bassist, Apr 27, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2021
  5. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2020
    Messages:
    4,795
    Ratings:
    +206
    Religion:
    spiritualist
    Humans are the topic owner to describe.

    Using science as the basis to discuss.

    Only in human presence is science inferred.

    Rational self observation is human spiritual status first.

    Science the discussed references.

    So did man scientist artificially change natural?

    The source as a science theme.

    Yes he did.

    Mother of God cold vacuum space womb reason any type of form is seen. Held existed.

    History of all natural bodies pre formed pre owned in space conditions. Without humans stating science.

    One practice science to force the highest state to change history owned by cold vacuum was science.

    Man human opposed natural in all highest forms.

    Man says I can convert dusts yet highest formed nature is no longer converting the dusts. Where science lie began. Can achieve it by machine yet natural was not doing it.

    A human says how I caused the conjuring of evil against my owned existence.

    Highest.

    Reasoning. I give detailed analogies of all body types consciously just as a human. My psyche gives the human thinker status.

    I lived in supported conditions of all highest states laws.

    I changed the law. Holding of form.

    Conjured what natural creation had not formed. I destroyed.

    Evil came from highest created status changed.

    Never came from lowest status no form held yet.

    One of sciences lies.

    It proves that it came out of metal. Yet metal is metal as metal.

    Science had to melt substances to get metal. To build first machine.

    Earth releasing Core heart radiation puts heat through substances that science reheats itself to build machines.

    Machine mass slightly overheats lucky it did not become the theoried hole of all substance removed. Sink hole reasoning in earth. The knowledge why it was said.

    Human innate naturally aware first.

    The radiation abducts our life spirit. Warns human victims. Water. Brain chemistry changed. We see visions until ice newly born melts. Water put back. Goes away by causes human saved.

    Then it goes into atmosphere as UFO effect. Gases alight reheat it. Spirit visions seen again.

    Microbes in water change to vision and form vision human like. Microbes used by human body as cell energy in water.

    As designer human thinker tried to anti natural life.

    By decay. Radiation effect.

    Change earth gases as above so below the teaching.

    What I saw. What I learnt. Human family dying began seeing visions in life sacrifice. A human baby dies irradiated sick whilst humans elsewhere saved by water replaced.

    Water is not instantly replaced for everyone. The effect.

    See alien vision in variation visions in cooling. An effect.

    Claim some aliens okay. As cooling nearly had removed vision. Others evil aliens as radiation still apparent. Water not instantly replaced.

    What humans endured as psychic reckoning. Self imposed. Self human reasoned. Human experience as a human.

    Why a human claimed another humans death saved their life. Visionary and psychic. When the heavens had saved the life. Incident other humans died.

    What I learnt by being human. Alive as a human. Attacked as a human. Experienced as a human.

    Human. We are human.

    Cannot warn you unless I am a living human in a human experience.
     
  6. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    15,012
    Ratings:
    +5,504
    Religion:
    Advaita and Spiritualist and Pantheist
    Well consider that they may doing things for the ultimate best interest of humanity's future. For example, naturalists working with animals might drug wild lions and perform exams and procedures on them for the lions' best interest. Imagine how this must look from the lions' perspective.

    And also alien abductions may be orchestrated in such a way that humanity does not take general notice. The sudden panic and confusion of such a sudden revelation to mankind might be damaging and upsetting in a way we can't predict.
     
  7. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2020
    Messages:
    4,795
    Ratings:
    +206
    Religion:
    spiritualist
    Animal life medical bio sciences observation of life existing by human stated said for intelligence.

    Status compared to nuclear occult liar intelligent medical says an ape not any alien is closest in natural life and is not a human type body.

    As human intelligence.

    Occult scientists tried to claim human voice recording a state plus human image is where life's duplication came from. It was built I hear AI data claim. Life.

    As if it built itself upon an image. Yet in AI image builds up is transmitted no longer built then reforms. Transmitting.

    Ai mind possession false information.

    To then go as far as claiming an alien image was before a human image.

    Just because a science expressed state...the state recording said so.

    Is not intelligent.

    Water as mass is water only what we live within.

    We live with microbes in water mass

    But we are human.

    Inside our water form looked at by a machine microbes are seen. As they are in water. Still microbes inside our bodies.

    No machine no falsification of ownership status. By machine claimed ideas.

    We are Whole. One self. One completed presence. Human. No machine owns status in life.

    Water cannot build up.

    The basic mass is first water.

    If you claimed microbes all came together and built each form. Not even real.

    Each form existing complete is each body you look at. Natural advice.

    Visionary destruction is first theoried.

    I will look at an ape and between a human whole form I will pretend human removal.

    What sort comparison cell info would I use to have the human removed.

    Using all natural life forms in a destructive mentality.

    Seen.
    Observed by human spiritual lives and minds. Observing your intent.

    As the destroyer mind theist.

    All human reasons done to humans in human presence observed.

    You see exactly what you are looking at. The See.

    If you quote I will see into a cell by using a machine intelligence advised you what you are doing.

    Not intelligent to pretend theories by stories said only by a human thinking.

    Father said theists today are no longer scientists as the scientist said to the theist you were proven wrong.

    I live as a human inside the heavens.

    Whatever else you see inside the heavens is owned itself and ended to be seen as a whole form.

    What theist lying by observation human was discussed for.

    The intent to use fear as a control.
     
  8. Musing Bassist

    Musing Bassist Mihi Quaestio Factus Sum

    Joined:
    May 18, 2014
    Messages:
    2,788
    Ratings:
    +1,360
    Religion:
    Ordinariate Catholic
    The difference is that humans have a rational nature lions lack. If these beings are doing something for our benefit then that benefit should be explained to us. Secondly, this reasoning does not take into account the sexual nature of many of these abductions. My position is that of Dr Karla Turner's. These beings are malicious liars. Well, at least the ones abducting people at night anyway.

    I agree it has been orchestrated in such a way that most people will reject the reality of the phenomenon out of hand. The whole topic is a contradictory rabbit hole and I think that's on purpose. I disagree with the idea that the disclosure of extraterrestrial life (if indeed that's what they are) would actually cause that much panic in the long run. It will cause a few existential crises for some religious types and the sceptics who derided those who encountered these beings will have to eat some humble pie. But at the end of the day, the revelation that aliens are real is not going to pay your rent. Heck, the U.S. government has already implicitly admitted UFO's are real with the Pentagon footage. And no one really cared. Perhaps they're testing the public reaction. Who knows?
     
    #8 Musing Bassist, Apr 28, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2021
  9. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    49,001
    Ratings:
    +13,352
    Religion:
    not a theist
    I have a cousin who is a member of a group who claims that it is all humans doing it from the future.

    I do not remember the name of the group.
    I will try getting a hold of him and asking though.
     
  10. Musing Bassist

    Musing Bassist Mihi Quaestio Factus Sum

    Joined:
    May 18, 2014
    Messages:
    2,788
    Ratings:
    +1,360
    Religion:
    Ordinariate Catholic
    I've heard that claim before and it's an interesting concept. There's also some speculation that the greys in particular are biological robots rather than truly living beings.

    Still, I lean towards the idea that the phenomenon is paranormal/preternatural rather than extraterrestrial. (Or human).
     
  11. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2020
    Messages:
    4,795
    Ratings:
    +206
    Religion:
    spiritualist
    O earth stone one mass planet.

    Humans own body Bones like stone.

    Medical advice I belong with God planet earth as a human.

    Reason for teaching humans we belong to God. As brain phenomena attacked irradiated by science is human caused as earth radiation release.

    Radiation owning no form the UFO effect.

    We live in water.
    Our bio form high percentage water
    Water has micro life living in it.

    Science. No machine. Says I want gods power....
    Energy in stone.

    Takes the product unlocks it as mass product causing radiation effect.

    Product is what science uses not radiation released to change product.

    Radiation burns MICRo life to carbon that human life uses. In water.

    It's anti designer human is whole bodied conscious presence. Water life microbiome owner.

    Anti effect in life to the carbonized effect of the living energy.

    As water cools the radiation.

    Vacuum sucks out radiation as gas burning is kept above us as cooled attack. So water microbe earth owned was taken out.

    Burnt in God once sealed cooled by water.
    Cooled radiation our life water loses cell life.
    Reburnt gas burning.
    Sucked out into space radiating.
    Comes back in as radiation in space cools to metals. So it's like a part of a human machine cause gets returned.

    Metals get reburnt and cooled plunging through water mass again.

    As humans are destroying natural mineral mass artificially by their human built machines.

    How alien life forms get built.

    Vacuum cannot cool radiation as it was reburnt in gas light again.

    Comes back in. Gases alight burn it again. Water evaporation microbes carbon and fresh burn again.

    Alien UFO effect human science caused the anti of self. Built it themselves. Causes.

    Any strange human mind belief is a human who had a strange attack. As it is not natural our consciousness cannot explain it. Instead makes stories trying to accept and consciously deal with the conditions.

    What consciousness does when abused.

    Science studying consciousness wants the human experience to be taught as science. When it is not related to human science.
     
  12. Saint Frankenstein

    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2012
    Messages:
    33,390
    Ratings:
    +18,581
    I agree. The whole "alien" thing doesn't make a bit of sense. The abduction stories do sound just alike stories from earlier folklore about demonic or spirit possession. There was a sci-fi horror movie not too long ago - The Fourth Kind - that portrayed the alien abduction phenomenon (including the whole Annunaki thing of Zecharia Sitchin fame) in a visceral way. It's a good example of what I mean and you also see the same sort of thing in the X-Files. They're bizarre, terrifying experiences. The whole UFO subject is drowning in disinfo and misinfo, as well. There's a lot of classified government and military stuff involved, too. (Area 51 (the base in Groom Lake, Nevada) is really a military base to test highly experimental and advanced technology, and the alien stuff seems a coverup for what is really going on there).

    Bigfoot is also said to really be an interdimensional being of some kind, and that seems the best explanation for that creature, too.
     
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...