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Featured Explain to me why god is real using facts

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Felix Harris, Jan 4, 2019.

  1. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    So religion is your expert? I would venture to say thats problematic dont you think?

    Example lets take the stupid of stupid in religion Young earth creationism. Are you proposing they understand the topic? There is no evidence of that, they project onto nature and the bible at the same time. You can't on the one hand say "oh they really understand the topic god, and turn and proclaim its nonsense."

    You are jusr relying on them to be your expert on the topic so you can debunk it. Ha thats extreme confirmational bias.
     
    #201 David T, Jan 6, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
  2. ratiocinator

    ratiocinator Lightly seared on the reality grill.

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    Why?
     
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  3. It Aint Necessarily So

    It Aint Necessarily So Well-Known Member
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    I am an atheist. It is the only rational position possible until some compelling evidence for a god or gods is produced.

    I find the sun to be a lot clearer. So did George Carlin:

    "So rather than be just another mindless religious robot, mindlessly and aimlessly and blindly believing that all of this is in the hands of some spooky incompetent father figure who doesn't give a sh!t, I decided to look around for something else to worship. Something I could really count on.

    "And immediately, I thought of the sun. Happened like that. Overnight I became a sun-worshiper. Well, not overnight, you can't see the sun at night. But first thing the next morning, I became a sun worshiper. Several reasons. First of all, I can see the sun, okay? Unlike some other gods I could mention, I can actually see the sun. I'm big on that. If I can see something, I don't know, it kind of helps the credibility along, you know? So every day I can see the sun, as it gives me everything I need; heat, light, food, flowers in the park, reflections on the lake, an occasional skin cancer, but hey. At least there are no crucifixions, and we're not setting people on fire simply because they don't agree with us
    "​

    Why don't you go ahead and make that laugh respectable by inserting a sky pixie into the mix. Now you've got something worthy of respect and serious consideration.

    We have no evidence. Neither do the theists. The difference is that we know it and say so.

    Not even that. There's nothing to argue about. Unlike the faith-based thinker, the rational skeptic needs a substantial reason to believe something before believing it, and lacking a reason to believe in gods, is an atheist. What is there to argue about there?

    It's when the theist arrives on the scene making fallacious arguments or empty or absurd claims, we respond. If theism ever dies down to the level of say Druidism, and becomes invisible in the culture at large, theists probably won't ever hear from us again.
     
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  4. Sleeppy

    Sleeppy Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.

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    How would you define 'God'?
     
  5. Shantanu

    Shantanu Well-Known Member

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    As Creator and Preserver of the universe?
     
  6. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    You don't believe that there is intelligent design behind the creation, and you admit that you have no evidence of when and how the first life forms appeared on earth, so obviously, having no evidence whatsoever, you do not believe in evolution either. You don't believe too much do you? But I suppose that is why you are an atheist..
     
  7. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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  8. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    Assume we have a real candidate ─ one with objective existence, not imaginary ─ for the title 'God'.

    What test will tell us whether [it]'s 'creator and preserver of the universe' or not?
     
  9. Shantanu

    Shantanu Well-Known Member

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    God has to prove to me that He can create and preserve. There must be evidence that He has done that.
     
  10. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    You don't believe that there is intelligent design behind the creation, and you admit that you have no evidence of when and how the first life forms appeared on earth, so obviously, having no evidence whatsoever, you do not believe in evolution either. You don't believe too much do you?
    The evidence that I see, is the fact that this particular universe which is but 13.8 billion years old began as liquid like (Plasma) energy. At that instant, of the event that is called the Big Bang, the universal temperature was 100 million trillion trillion kelvins (180 million trillion trillion degrees Fahrenheit). and that energy, which has neither beginning or end, has become this entire boundless cosmos.

    Nothing Is Solid & Everything Is Energy – Scientists Explain The World of Quantum Physics*

    “Get over it, and accept the inarguable conclusion. The universe is immaterial-mental and spiritual” (1) – Richard Conn Henry, Professor of Physics and Astronomy at Johns Hopkins University (quote taken from “the mental universe)

    A fundamental conclusion of the new physics also acknowledges that the OBSERVER CREATES THE REALITY. As observers, we are personally involved with the creation of our own reality. Physicists are being forced to admit that the UNIVERSE IS "MENTAL CONSTRUCTION" .

    Pioneering physicist Sir James Jeans wrote: “The stream of knowledge is heading toward a non-mechanical reality; the universe begins to look more like a great thought than like a great machine. Mind no longer appears to be an accidental intruder into the realm of matter, we ought rather hail it as the creator and governor of the realm of matter. (R. C. Henry, “The Mental Universe”; Nature 436:29, 2005)

    I have presented my evidence that all that exists was created by, from and for the eternal energy which has neither beginning or end.

    I await your evidence that life was created by and from a universe of mindless matter.
     
  11. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    Our present understanding is that there's no sharp line that divides life from non-life.
    Yes, one form of democracy, but a definite one, since it has universal adult suffrage.
    It's an idea ─ experiment, lampoon, witty provocation ─ that only works within the musical genre and asks, 'What is music?'
    That's all very well for abstract and generalized concepts but it doesn't work for real things. If God is real then then God has real characteristics that identify [him] as God, or as a particular god. If God exists only as a thing imagined, a concept existing only in individual brains, then such a god can be anything the imaginer desires.

    My concern is with the complete absence of a satisfactory definition of what a real god is, what the quality 'godness' is that a real god possesses and a superscientist does not. (Why would anyone want to worship a superscientist?)

    I can provide the sociological observations myself. It's the hole in the theology that has my attention.
     
  12. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    How does the impartial enquirer

    ─ identify this god?

    ─ interrogate this god? By what method, for example, does this god say [he] made the universe?

    ─ satisfy herself or himself that the universe was in fact made by a god, and that it was this particular god?
     
  13. Shantanu

    Shantanu Well-Known Member

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    One has to bring this God into one's life and get Him to show that He can create and preserve. I have created such a God for myself;).
     
  14. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    And how does God provide this satisfactory evidence?
     
  15. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    Nice work!
     
  16. Shantanu

    Shantanu Well-Known Member

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    He will free me from mental health persecution by the United Kingdom State.
     
  17. Shantanu

    Shantanu Well-Known Member

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    It was nice work of guidance on how to create legal manoevres to preserve myself.
     
  18. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    My, in January 2019 that's a big call.

    So, you're saying, seeing will be believing?
     
  19. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, that was sarcasm. One religion uses their Scriptures to "prove" God. They assume, of course, that their Scriptures are "fact", because their Scriptures came from God. And then another religion uses their Scriptures to disprove the other religion.

    But I personally don't mind if their is a God, but I can't stand some of his rules. I don't like that he created things that cause sicknesses and diseases. I don't like that he created a planet that has things happening on it that kill people, like earthquakes and hurricanes and tsunamis. I don't like that he created creatures that can kill and eat people. I don't like that he created people with the need to kill and eat other creatures. But, other than that, and a few other grievances, I don't mind that there might be a god. But, I really wonder, what was god thinking?
     
  20. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    What does it mean to "exist objectively." Do you mean that it actually exists, or do you mean that it can be proven to exist objectively?

    Logically speaking, it is entirely possible that God exists but cannot be proven to exist objectively. In fact it is reasonable to assume that if an immaterial God exists, that God could never be proven objectively. It is also reasonable to assume that even if God could prove to us that He exists in some fashion, God might not want to prove He exists, in which case God would not prove He exists, since an Omnipotent God only does what it wants to do.

    So where does that leave us? It leaves us with certain choices. We can choose to *disbelieve* in God because there is no objective evidence that God exists, or we can accept that, logically speaking, is unreasonable to expect to obtain objective proof and continue along on our search for other kinds of evidence that might indicate that God exists.
     
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