Experts Claim Official 9/11 Story is a Hoax

[FFH]

WTC 5 and 6 (whose structures partially collasped) were demolished on the Friday morning after the tragedy. WTC 4 also sustained a partial collaspe and demolished before the week was out as well.

I think the 1 or 2 hour video that many of us downloaded, (which took me overnight to load up on a dial-up), was trying to pass off WTC 4.5 or 6 as WTC 7. I think that is where the confusion, as to which building was which, came into play. I assumed they had identified the building correctly. They showed a building falling straight down and not tipping at all. They labeled it WTC 7, when in fact it was probably WTC 4,5, or 6. WTC 5 and 6, that were taken down the day after and WTC 4, which was taken down within the week of the attack, was what I was referring to, when I mentioned WTC 7. Sorry I didn't realize, or had forgotten, how many building surrounding WTC 1 and 2 were demolished after the attacks. Such a horrible tragedy. So many good people perished in such a horrible act of violence and agression towards Americans. I remember a strory that came out of a couple who worked in WTC 1 or 2, who fled the building and drove all the way to SLC, and stayed with relatives, because they were so scared that New York was under a complete attack and would possibly be destroyed. I hope it isn't a warning of worse things to come in the future. Remember the explosions that happened in the parking garage in the basement ??? We should have taken that more seriously. It was a warning of worse things to come. Could the attacks on WTC 1 and 2 be yet a warning of even worse things to come in the future. I pray not. I think that much grander scale attacks are and were planned on but they have since and will be foiled by our beefed up security. Many unknown attacks have been prevented by our OWN GOVERNMENT to prove where our loyalty lies, AND IT"S NOT WITH THE TERRORST. Only those outside our country seem to sympathize with TERRORISTS. I feel sorry for your souls !!!

The videos that many of us have downloaded are full of more lies, false pictures, and videos, labling things that are not, as though they were, than I had previously thought. These videos only serve to confuse and anger the world towards the wrong people. Peoples anger needs to be directed at extreme Islamic terrorists, not the American government, CIA or FBI, which is trying thair best to foil future attacks on the U.S. Look what happened to Paris. Did Paris plan or want that ??? No !!! It only shows the anger that certain groups of people hold, withing themselves, toward other groups of people. Hate is a bad thing and will make you do unspeakable things when left unchecked.

TERROIST SYMPATHISERS come to mind when thinking of this stuff.

The NSA is trying to track down all those within the U.S. that would threaten our security from within. People who produce such videos should be scrutinized and looked at very closely. These people are doing more damage than any terrorist could do. Terrorist sympathisers and promoters is all that they are. They are only spreading hate and a love for violence with their films.

We cannot trust the images as what they say they are. They probably labled WTC 5,6 or 4 as WTC 7. It would be easy to do since those who were not familiar with each building would not know the difference, such as someone like yourself. Like I have said before these films are geared to the mass of uneducated people in the world that will spend their money on these films just because they have nothing better to do with their money and will easily buy into this stuff. Sort of a Michael Moore phenomenon.

Thanks for clearing things up more than I could have ever hoped for in this thread. I think you have pretty much debunked this whole thread and made those that start these type of threads look like fools for believing in these lies. Anyone that agrees with the lies posted on this thread obviously have nothing better to do with their lives than to believe in another mans lies.

 

[Tannenisis]

Well, for one thing, I think it's healthy to be skeptical of every claim you come across, including mine. I am, after all, just another voice on the internet. However, before I simply just let the issue go, I'll post some pictures to give you an idea of what I'm talking about. By all means, don't take my word for it; google for yourself if you have additional questions.

Here is a diagram that shows the layout of the World Trade Center site. The building to the left of WTC 7 is The Verizon Building. To the right is the Post office. Notice how WTC 7 is connected to WTC 5 and 6? This is the landbridge that I'm talking about.

There was also a landbridge on West Street that connected to the Winter Garden, which was heavily damaged as well. It was far smaller than the one connecting WTC7 to the other WTC structures. This is what the Winter Garden looked like after Tower 1 fell.

This is WTC 3:
before
after
This structure collasped prior to WTC 7. No one talks about it, though. As I've said, it must be that it wasn't controversial enough.

Study this diagram, which is more detailed. Again, notice that WTC 7 is connected to WTC 5 and 6.
Look at this.
The street going vertical is West Street. You will see that landbridge in blue there. The other street going across at an angle is Vessey Street. Please direct your attention to the L-shaped building on the corner diagonal from the Towers. See the cars on Vessey Street? Follow them towards the left of your screen. There is a structure over the street in front of WTC 6. WTC 6 is directly behind Tower 1. That structure you see is the other landbridge I have mentioned that connects WTC 7 to the other structures. There is no such structure where Vessey meets West.
Note how tall these towers are and just how close they are to the other structures, namely how close tower 1 is to WTC7.

Okay, then study the destruction. The building with the crater in it is WTC6. The one next to it with the back of the L caved in is WTC 5. Survey this. Look at the extent of this damage. Why no mention of the damage to 5 and 6? Why all the concentration on WTC 7 without talking about the path of destruction leading to it, which is incidentally right along the path where the building was connected to the others?

Lastly, this shows the actual damage to the buildings in the area. As I've stated, 14o West Street and Fietman Hall sustained major damage. The only point that this particular site has wrong is that none of the other buildings were beyond repair; Initial assessments at the time stated that the other majorly damaged buildings could be salvaged.

However, 130 Liberty Street, 90 West Street and Fiterman Hall had severe structual damage AND were contaminated with lead and asbestos, which deemed them unihabitable. Ongoing efforts have partially collasped and decontaminated the buildings in the diagram highlighted in blue and much of them has been built over since 9/11. Construction in lower Manhattan, as you all know, is still ongoing.

My two cents,
Tannenisis

 

[Tannenisis]

I think that much grander scale attacks are and were planned on but they have since and will be foiled by our beefed up security. Many unknown attacks have been prevented by our OWN GOVERNMENT to prove where our loyalty lies, AND IT"S NOT WITH THE TERRORST. Only those outside our country seem to sympathize with TERRORISTS.

Our national security foils things all the time. However, this is not to say that our security could not be better or that there are holes within it that can be exploited. That is what being skeptical about these accounts results in: investigations. This is a GOOD thing. Our government is supposed to be held accountable to the PEOPLE for their action and inaction.
It has nothing to do with siding with the terrorists, which is largely, IMO, an accusation that is used all too loosely these days.

Peoples anger needs to be directed at extreme Islamic terrorists, not the American government, CIA or FBI, which is trying thair best to foil future attacks on the U.S.

Again, this isn't about not directing anger where it belongs. The terrorists that flew planes into those buildings and destroyed my job have full responsibility for what they have done. No one is disputing that.
However, to say that we should not look at the actions of the American government on that day, of all days, is bewildering to me.
How can we prevent the next attack if we can't discuss how this one managed to come about? How can the government correct itself for it's mistakes if we sit by and place it above criticism? This is not how our nation works, nor how it was founded.
You may as well say that there should have been no investigation into FEMA, Lousianna and local government after the Katrina disaster because our government is "doing it's best." How many here believe that Katrina was handled properly?

TERROIST SYMPATHISERS come to mind when thinking of this stuff.

What do you think all of us unemployed New Yorkers did in the aftermath of the tragedy? There was nothing to do except wait for another attack, fear opening your mail because of anthrax and talk about conspiracy theories. It has nothing to do with siding with the terrorists and everything to do with the fact that our nation spends more on the military than the rest of the world.
How could such a thing happen HERE? This is a relevant question. Why hasn't Bin Ladin himself been brought to justice rather than diverting resources towards Iraq? Isn't Bin Ladin responsible for over 3,000 deaths and massive chaos? Yet he is still able to make his video tapes....it makes you wonder.

People who produce such videos should be scrutinized and looked at very closely. These people are doing more damage than any terrorist could do. Terrorist sympathisers and promoters is all that they are. They are only spreading hate and a love for violence with their films.

And I disagree with you. We have, in this country, vast amounts of freedom, which many of us cherish deeply. You may not agree with the David Icke's of the world, but they should certainly be allowed to have their say. Stifling such things only makes it go underground. It doesn't eradicate it. Quite the contrary, it makes it more tantalizing because it's taboo.
I don't think the people who put forth these theories are doing more damage. After all, conspiracy theories do occur. Ruby Ridge. Watergate. Deep Throat. The Tuskegee Experiments. The extermination of 11 million people during the Holocaust (including 5 million non-Jewish souls, mostly disabled persons and Gypsies). Enron. The supression of information regarding side effects of anti-depressant drugs and Ritalin in favor of profit margins.
These are all real events, horrible events that actually did happen. And they were all dismissed as conspiracy theories before they were proven true.

Thanks for clearing things up more than I could have ever hoped for in this thread. I think you have pretty much debunked this whole thread and made those that start these type of threads look like fools for believing in these lies. Anyone that agrees with the lies posted on this thread obviously have nothing better to do with their lives than to believe in another mans lies.

The intent is not to make anyone look like a fool. The intent is to have an open discussion, which we are having. It defeats the edicts of our society if we can't speak openly about such things.

My two cents,
Tannenisis

 

[FFH]

The walkway which extended from WTC 1 and connected WTC 6, as well as, the walkway from WTC 2 that connected to WTC 4, certainly played a role in damaging 4 and 6, when the buildings came down. Also since WTC 7 was attached to WTC 6, which was attached to WTC 1, it must have had a domino affect, since they were all connected. Even WTC 5 must have been affected, since it was also connected to WTC 7 and WTC 4. You get the Idea. Ring around the rosies, we all fall down. They were all joined together. I always thought that played a big role in weekening the buildings, not to mention all the hot gasses from the jet fuel explosion that would have traveled down through WTC 1 and 2, which were powerful enough to blow out all of the windows of the lobbies, That hot wind from the explosion would have traveled throughout 4,5,6 and 7 and would have done a lot of damage. This is my theory.

But my main ideas is that the walkways would have pulled at, and damaged, the surrounding buildings as WTC 1 and 2 went down.

 

[FFH]

Anyone seen this film ??? It's a great one. Real footage of that day, taken by French filmakers. This film includes the only known footage of what happened inside one of the towers. It shows the lobby windows that were blown out, and shows footage of the collapse, while the French filmaker was still in the lobby, with the firefighters. There were people that survived the collapse of the first building, that were in the lobby.

The name of the film is 9/11: The Filmakers' Commemorative Edition

I just watched it a few weeks ago.

 

[FFH]

There is a film about flight 93 (the United flight that went down in Shanksville, Pennsylvania) that will be shown tonight on The "I" Network, or The Independent Network, which was formerly Pax TV.

Here's a link to the film's showtime, which airs tonight, Feb 13th: Portrait of Courage: The Untold Story of Flight 93

 

[greatcalgarian]

This is not true. Although your post is not asking for information, I will respond with my own experience to the theories put forth by some on this thead.
My husband and I worked in WTC5 up until it was destroyed on 9/11. The tragedy displaced 125 workers at my company- Borders- including us.
My brother-in-law is a court officer who dug for survivors as did many of my coworkers in the aftermath. I state this so that you can know I'm not just talking out of my ***.

Having said that:
WTC7 came down the same day as the towers did. So did WTC 3, which conspiracy theories NEVER mention. I suppose that building isn't controversial enough because it was a Marriot Hotel.
If WTC7 was a controlled demolition by the authorties at the scene, it was pretty damn sloppy. (perhaps it was done in a hurry, and was not planned?) It didn't fall straight down, but on a slant. The collaspe damaged (next to it) 140 West Street (The Verizon building) with about 5 stories of rubble, causing flooding in its basement and structual damage. 30 West Broadway, located behind WTC 7, also suffered significant damage that the building was deemed a total loss. It was a part of the City University of New York (CUNY) system. It's formal name was Fiterman Hall. Demolition had been delayed until last year because the building needed to be severely decomtaminated (as did several others) to avoid severe health hazards (like absestos and lead, among things). The post office on the corner of Church and Vessey street received some damage as well, although pretty minor.
How many professional demolition companies are going to bring down a building in such a way as to damage an additional three surrounding it so that they will take millions to repair or will have to be demolished themselves?

WTC 5 and 6 (whose structures partially collasped) were demolished on the Friday morning after the tragedy. WTC 4 also sustained a partial collaspe and demolished before the week was out as well.

Other facts the conspiracy sites fail to mention:
1) WTC 7 was connected at its base by a landbridge over Vessey Street that conjoined to WTC 5, 6 and one of the towers.(why is this important? what can we learn from this unmentioned fact?) No other buildings on Vessey Street were directly connected to the Tower structures in this manner. I walked across it once a week.

2) WTC 7 was connected underground to the World Trade Center Mall, which had several levels that descended into transit tunnels underneath. The World Trade Center itself was a hub stop on the NJ transit line as well as other subway lines, all of which sustained damaged after the towers fell. This is not compact ground that WTC 7 was standing on; it was very hallow ground for several stories. The structural impact of the collaspes went down approx. 70 meters from understanding.

3) WTC 7 was evacuated. Fires broked out in the base floors and spread upwards after the collaspe. People underestimate the loss of life when the towers fell. Whole departments of fire fighters and police officers were killed instanteously. The decision was made to make no attempt to salvage WTC 7 because they didn't want to lose any more men. I assure you that just prior to WTC7 collasping the fires were raging out of control on all floors. (Does this means the WTC7 was demolished on purpose? To make sure that it collapsed safely?)

4) People make the assertion that the fires at Ground Zero were ordinary fires. There were not. These fires burned until December, fed by the electrical and gas lines underground as well as by the material themselves.
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn1634
("First, this is not a typical fire by any means. The combustible debris is mixed with twisted steel in a mass that covers 17 acres" This does not explain the high temperature reached and burned for so long???)

People ask: how can a regular fire cause WTC 7 to collaspe? My response is that for one thing, WTC 7 suffered structural damage. Secondly, ordinary fires do not burn for months after a building collaspes, even with the area not being flooded for some weeks due to the rescue effort. So the attempt at these "experts" to claim that what happened at Ground Zero is "just an ordinary fire in human history" is complete B.S. I don't care how many degrees they have.(So there is something unusual about the source of the fire or the fire remaining after the collapse? What is that?)

3) Witnesses at the scene (including a large number of my coworkers) detail several explosive sounds prior to the collaspe, which were in fact the levels surrounding the plane impacts caving in on the Towers. They state that the impact points "crumpled in on themselves." This is collaborated by many, many statements from police, firefighters and pedestrians at the time. Also by one of my friends who videotaped the entire collaspe of both buildings on her palmcorder; on each of the roofs of the towers there were approx. 40-60 people waiting for helicopters that perished in that collaspe. My friend watched and recorded all of this. No demolition explosions were present.(How did you arrive at that conclusion?)

4) Having worked there, there is no way that any of this was a controlled demolition. For one thing, controlled demolition requires large detonation charges which could not be hidden anywhere within these buildings, especially not floor by floor. Someone would notice them as they are usually large packages wrapped in black plastic. Other explosives like C4, ect. are very sensitive and would have detonated upon the impact of the planes themselves.

It is also quite redundant to take the trouble of hijacking planes if you are blowing the building anyway. Also what are the odds of flying said planes into the Towers in such a PRECISE manner that the pilots didn't manage to detonate the charges that were supposedly placed there before hand?

5) There are other theories about missles being shot from the planes into the towers prior to their impact. Also bunk as my husband was standing on the street when the second plane hit along with my coworkers and witnessed no such thing.

6) Bombs around the base of the towers or in the basement: also bunk as my husband worked on the concourse level underneath the WTC structure itself. So did many others. They would all be dead right now.

7) Removal of the steel at the scene: This was done because of the rescue effort and also because the tons and tons of rubble at the site were compounding the tunnels underground. Several of them, including the NJ transit tunnel sustained alot of damage, such as flooding. The additional weight was causing problems.

Now the destruction and disposal of said steel before it was properly analyzed is another story.(What is your explanation for that?)

I'm sure there are other things that I am overlooking that can be easily debunked as well.
Now after all this, I can state that I believe our government is not being fully honest with us about the events of 9/11. There are glaring omissions of protocol in the official explanation. Of course they wouldn't be fully honest with us; there are many aspects of the tragedy that are classified at this time. It usuallly takes a few decades for documents to be declassfied to the extent that the public can get a more comprehensive picture of what took place. Such has been the case with events like the Cuban Missle Crisis or Pearl Harbor.
Secondly, the stalling of formation and actions of the 9/11 commission and the current failure to implement its suggestions are highly suspect to me. So is the fact that many that testified before the commission did not do so under oath. Nor did our president testify alone. Bush testified jointly with Cheney. This is a very unusual occurance. These are but a few of the problems that I have with the 9/11 story (Do you have any explanation for that?), none of which include wild conspiracy theories, but actual fact.


My two cents,
Tannenisis

Frubals to you. Good information to dispel wild conspiracy theories. Very sensible discussion and observation on problems with the government story, and not completely taken in by the official story.

I learned several new facts. Thanks.

 

[greatcalgarian]

When a proper investigation was done, and a truely independent report being issued, there will be no place for conspiracy theories to breed on:

A leaked Congressional report - due to be released on Wednesday - singles out Mr Chertoff for criticism.

It says the government response was marked by "fecklessness and flailing".

The summary of the 600-page report - seen by the Associated Press news agency - is damning.

"Our investigation revealed that Katrina was a national failure, an abdication of the most solemn obligation to provide for the common welfare," it says. "At every level - individual, corporate, philanthropic and governmental - we failed to meet the challenge that was Katrina."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4710682.stm

 

[greatcalgarian]

What do you say to the following ficticious report by the official 9/11 commission :

A leaked Congressional report - due to be released on Wednesday - singles out Mr Rxxxxx for criticism.

It says the government response was marked by "fecklessness and flailing".

The summary of the 600-page report - seen by the Associated Press news agency - is damning.

"Our investigation revealed that 9/11 was a national failure, an abdication of the most solemn obligation to provide for the common welfare," it says. "At every level - individual, corporate, philanthropic and governmental - we failed to meet the challenge that was 9/11."

 

[greatcalgarian]

I don't think the people who put forth these theories are doing more damage. After all, conspiracy theories do occur. Ruby Ridge. Watergate. Deep Throat. The Tuskegee Experiments. The extermination of 11 million people during the Holocaust (including 5 million non-Jewish souls, mostly disabled persons and Gypsies). Enron. The supression of information regarding side effects of anti-depressant drugs and Ritalin in favor of profit margins.
These are all real events, horrible events that actually did happen. And they were all dismissed as conspiracy theories before they were proven true.

So there is a 1 % chance that one of the conspiracy theories on 9/11 could be true??
http://web.mid-day.com/news/world/2005/september/118397.htm
(1)The flights that were later to hit the WTC buildings were flying in one of the most intensely monitored air spaces in the whole of the USA.
All over these areas and elsewhere in the US, when aircrafts are off course the Federal Aviation Authority (FAA) notifies the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) and fighters are scrambled from the nearest airbase to speedily intercept and escort the wayward plane back to course and force it to land and even attack it if the situation so warrants. This happens routinely within minutes of being informed by the FAA of abnormal behaviour by any aircraft.
What went wrong on 9/11? Where did the problem lie? Prior to the first plane crash into WTC North Tower, an argument can be made, albeit very weakly, that the US government authorities were caught napping but for the second time in the same hour, they did nothing.
(2)The Destruction of the World Trade Center: Why the Official Account Cannot Be True
by David Ray Griffin, Ph.D.??

DAVID RAY GRIFFIN: I'm saying that people who have studied this have come up with very strong reasons to believe that neither the impact of the plane combined with the fires would be sufficient, and many fire men as I record in the book, have -- and engineers have come to that conclusion, too. Again, I’m calling for an investigation by people who do have the expertise, but the problem is that the Bush administration created a halo over 9/11, so it became not only unpatriotic, but almost sack religious to raise any questions. Therefore, the main line press has not raised these questions such as was the hole in the Pentagon only 18 feet in diameter as this picture suggests? They have not raised questions about why the photograph doesn't show any plane on the pentagon lawn. They haven't raised questions about the official story which says that somehow the plane went inside, and then the fire was so hot that it vaporized, it vaporized aluminum and tempered steel and yet somehow left the bodies in tact enough that they could be identified either through DNA -- these are ludicrous.

(3)Any truth in Professor Michel Chossudovsky writing?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO301B.html
(4) Or may be US cold war opposition was telling something we do not know of?
According to Russian General, 9/11 was a Globalist Inside Job
“The organizers of the 9/11 attacks were the political & business circles interested in destabilizing the world order"
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=NIM20060123&articleId=1788

Here in America and likely much of Europe, General Ivashov’s message is all but invisible, since the corporate media assiduously ignores any discussion of nine eleven that does not take the fantastical Straussian neocon version of events as gospel truth. As an example of this, run a Google News search on General Ivashov—it will return the sole link to the Cuban newspaper above, peroid.