Experiencing God

[Blastcat]

I quote the conclusion of the New Scientist article once again:
"[Along with the Quantum Field] The Higgs field is also thought to make a small contribution, giving mass to individual quarks as well as to electrons and some other particles. The Higgs field creates mass out of the quantum vacuum too, in the form of virtual Higgs bosons. So if the LHC confirms that the Higgs exists, it will mean all reality is virtual."
I guess you know more than the author or the researchers of this experiment. Let's just cut to the chase here, and show me the actual atomic material that exists.

I am quite sure than on the MACRO level where we all live, walls are not "virtual" .. nobody can walk through them. If scientists could not MEASURE and OBSERVE anything, we would say that it doesn't exist. Unfortunately for your woo theory, scientists do and can. The Higgs was observed. Atomic material can be measured and observed.

Get your head out the woo toilet bowl.

Consciousness is a delusion? How so?

You have a delusion, I would never say that consciousness ITSELF is a delusion.
I would leave that kind of nonsense to others.

All that anyone need 'understand' about what Quantum Physics is saying is that this so-called 'material' world is nothing than pure potential, rather than actuality. Quantum Physics cannot be explained in terms of the materialist paradigm. Anyone who does, does not understand Quantum Physics.

You delude yourself that you understand quantum physics.

Nobel Prize winning physicists have proven beyond doubt that the physical world is one large sea of energy that flashes into and out of being in milliseconds, over and over again.

Nothing is solid. This is the world of Quantum Physics.

We don't happen to live on the Quantum scale. Humans are made of particles, but are not particles themselves.


You confuse the part for the whole.

They have proven that thoughts are what put together and hold together this ever-changing energy field into the ‘objects’ that we see."


http://themindunleashed.org/2013/10/quantum-reality-limitless-potential.html

The article above describes the QUANTUM world. You delude yourself that you are a virtual particle in the quantum world.

Humans operate on a quite different level.

Now, having said this, what you DON'T know is what the nature of that 'energy field' actually is, because you will continue to attempt to 'explain' it in terms of Reason, Logic, and Analysis, when it is beyond these methods.

Scientists don't have all the answers. That doesn't prove your woo theories.
It's quite obvious that you don't reason , use logic or analyze well.

 

[Blastcat]

I



I quote the conclusion of the New Scientist article once again:

"[Along with the Quantum Field] The Higgs field is also thought to make a small contribution, giving mass to individual quarks as well as to electrons and some other particles. The Higgs field creates mass out of the quantum vacuum too, in the form of virtual Higgs bosons. So if the LHC confirms that the Higgs exists, it will mean all reality is virtual."

I guess you know more than the author or the researchers of this experiment. Let's just cut to the chase here, and show me the actual atomic material that exists.

The author of that quote is not a physicist. He is the Chartered Environmental Health Practitioner, Environmental Health & Housing Consultant Dr Stephen Battersby.

http://www.sabattersby.co.uk/index.html

He sounds like a nice enough guy.

 

[godnotgod]

There are other people in here.

Not all of them are taken in by your delusions.

You confuse money for reality.

You confuse basic needs with "addiction".


Deepak does has a following.

He sells woo for a living.


The only person I have noticed having trouble with the moon metaphor is yourself.

No.

You think of yourself as an extraordinary person.

I am not so impressed.

This is a delusion. You imagine that you have special knowledge of the “true nature or things”.

You delude yourself that you have special knowledge.


You delude yourself that you have special knowledge and you admit that you don’t make sense.

I noticed that from the very beginning.


You don’t make sense, and yet, expect to be taken seriously, as if you did.


You are being, quite literally, by your own admission, unreasonable.

Until they make their voices known, there is no 'we' who disagree with me, only you and one other.

'material' world refers to the visible Universe. The 3 addictions refer to Power, such as the lust for political power, which brings corruption; Sensation, such as the addiction to sex, violence, and thrills; and Security, such as the addiction to weaponry of every kind, driven by fear and hysteria.

Deepak's clients state over and over how happy they have become since spending time at his seminars. That is not woo; it is reality.

There is no problem with the moon metaphor. You are the one who took it literally. I told you: it is a metaphor for Reality. So where is the problem?

I here repeat an earlier error in your logic (amongst several others) so you can see it for yourself:

I said: "Show me how sound can exist without silence."

...to which you mistakenly replied:

"Silence is the ABSENCE of sound.
You mistake what IS for what IS NOT.
But they are not the same."

Do you see how your Reason and Logic fail you? I never said that sound and silence were the same; I said that sound cannot exist without silence.

You lie.

No, YOU think of me as an extraordinary person. I have never claimed that, nor have I claimed any special knowledge. Nor am I interested in impressing you. You are delusional.

There is no such 'special knowledge' of the true nature of things; all sentient beings are able to see it, unless they choose not to, such as yourself, who can't see it because your concepts about reality are in the way.

I have no special knowledge. The knowledge I have is Universal Consciousness, common to all sentient beings. Are you going to get that through your head this time, or not?

That which is beyond Reason cannot 'make sense' to the rational mind. Reason makes no sense when it tries to understand nature, because nature is not based on Reason; hence the paradox rational man has about nature. Nature is not irrational; it is non-rational. Do you understand the difference?

Setting Reason aside is not being unreasonable. The true nature of Reality is beyond Reason, so is neither reasonable nor not-reasonable. It is outside the sphere of Reason. That does not invalidate it as a legitimate way to knowledge. If I point to it, and you refuse to look, you are the one who is being unreasonable. I am saying to you: 'Look and see the truth for yourself', but you recoil into your box of Reason, demanding evidence, when the seeing itself is the evidence.

 

[godnotgod]

Your ad hominem is noted.

Your reference to my less than fifth grade level was already an ad hominem.

 

[godnotgod]

Words are descriptions of what we think about. Nobody is misunderstanding how language works in this thread but yourself.
You might have trouble with the concept of reality, and how language works, but others don't.

The REST OF US.. this "we" I refer to, don't.
You seem to want to confuse us too.

That's not working.

If there were no misunderstanding, this forum would not exist.

Where you are mistaken, is that Reality is not a concept, as you seem to think it to be. ALL CONCEPTS ABOUT REALITY FALL FAR SHORT OF THEIR MARKS. Only Reality itself can show you its true nature. All other approaches are still nibbling around its edges.

The meal must be experienced first hand to know what it is about; the menu (ie; concepts) is like eating cardboard with images of food printed on it, and thinking it to be the meal.

 

[godnotgod]

The author of that quote is not a physicist. He is the Chartered Environmental Health Practitioner, Environmental Health & Housing Consultant Dr Stephen Battersby.

http://www.sabattersby.co.uk/index.html

He sounds like a nice enough guy.

Again, you attack the pointing finger, rather than look at the moon.

So tell me about what the author is actually SAYING, rather than who he is. And let's not ignore the fact that he is posting on the NEW SCIENTIST website!

 

[Blastcat]

'material' world refers to the visible Universe. The 3 addictions refer to Power, such as the lust for political power, which brings corruption; Sensation, such as the addiction to sex, violence, and thrills; and Security, such as the addiction to weaponry of every kind, driven by fear and hysteria.

Well you think all of that material junk doesn't exist.

Deepak's clients state over and over how happy they have become since spending time at his seminars. That is not woo; it is reality.

You don’t believe in reality, remember?

No, YOU think of me as an extraordinary person.

No.

That which is beyond Reason cannot 'make sense' to the rational mind

I know.

Setting Reason aside is not being unreasonable.

Lol


And A=non A.


J

 

[Blastcat]

If there were no misunderstanding, this forum would not exist.


Some people go out of their way to create misunderstandings.

I prefer clarity.

Where you are mistaken, is that Reality is not a concept, as you seem to think it to be. ALL CONCEPTS ABOUT REALITY FALL FAR SHORT OF THEIR MARKS. .

Then yours falls short of its mark.

Only Reality itself can show you its true nature. All other approaches are still nibbling around its edges. .

Then stop nibbling around the edges.

The meal must be experienced first hand to know what it is about; the menu (ie; concepts) is like eating cardboard with images of food printed on it, and thinking it to be the meal.

I suggest you stop doing that.

 

[godnotgod]

I am quite sure than on the MACRO level where we all live, walls are not "virtual" .. nobody can walk through them. If scientists could not MEASURE and OBSERVE anything, we would say that it doesn't exist. Unfortunately for your woo theory, scientists do and can. The Higgs was observed. Atomic material can be measured and observed.

Get your head out the woo toilet bowl.





You have a delusion, I would never say that consciousness ITSELF is a delusion.
I would leave that kind of nonsense to others.





You delude yourself that you understand quantum physics.





We don't happen to live on the Quantum scale. Humans are made of particles, but are not particles themselves.


You confuse the part for the whole.






The article above describes the QUANTUM world. You delude yourself that you are a virtual particle in the quantum world.

Humans operate on a quite different level.




Scientists don't have all the answers. That doesn't prove your woo theories.
It's quite obvious that you don't reason , use logic or analyze well.

Are you saying I am wrong that the material world is potential, according to Quantum Physics?

You are quite confused. This entire world is the Quantum world, which we previously thought to be the material world. There is no confusion between the whole and the parts; In this case, the gross 'material' world is built upon sub-atomic particles, which are nothing more than fluctuations in the Quantum and Higgs fields. Therefore, if all sub-atomic mass is virtual in nature, then what is built on top of it is also virtual in nature. There are not two worlds, the material and the Quantum world; there is only ONE world, and this is it. The problem is in how we see it. When you awaken to true unconditioned mind, you will see it, but until then, you are seeing the world through the distorted lens of Time, Space, and Causation, which have created your conditioned view.

I never said nor impled that humans are virtual particles. You are quite deluded, and are reading crap into what I say, AGAIN! I said that the gross material world, of which we are a part, is built entirely upon the virtual mass of sub-atomic particles, rendering the material world virtual as well.

In order for you to see into the true nature of things, into the nature of the energy field at the base of all existence, you would need to set Reason aside and see directly into its nature. It is part of what you are, inside you, and therefore accessible. Science cannot do this because it's method is dissection, and dissection renders the observed a dead reality. One must see that the energy field and you are the same thing. Science cannot show you this.

 

[godnotgod]

Well you think all of that material junk doesn't exist.





You don’t believe in reality, remember?





No.





I know.





Lol


And A=non A.


J

Man are you dense, or what!

I NEVER SAID 'MATERIAL JUNK' DOES NOT EXIST! I said it is virtual. It's an ILLUSION! The Reality that is Pure Consciousness is what creates this virtual, illusory world we only think is real. Get it?

More flaws in your precious system of Reason and Logic:

NO! I nver said I don't believe in reality! I said that what most of us think to be a 'material' reality is not a solid reality, as demonstrated both by Quantum Physics AND by the mystics of all time.

More flaws:

I have now told you at least ten times that I have no special knowledge; that I am not special in any way, and yet, you quite ignorantly and bull-headedly continue to insist that I am. Therefore, that I am 'extraordianry' is only in YOUR mind, a notion you can't quite seem to shake off. What is wrong with you? Are you on drugs?

What is beyond Reason and cannot 'make sense' to the rational mind is because it is not based upon Reason. That does not mean it is irrational; it only means it is non-rational. Just because it is not based upon Reason does not mean it is not valid; it only means it does not conform to the system of thought known as Reason, as if Reason were the Gold Standard. Understand that Reason is based on Reality, but Reality is not based upon Reason, and by that I do not mean your everyday notion of 'hard' reality.

 

[Blastcat]

Are you saying I am wrong that the material world is potential, according to Quantum Physics?

Are you a quantum particle?

Are I never said nor impled that humans are virtual particles.

I'm happy to hear it.

You aren’t quite as delusional as I first thought.

Are I said that the gross material world, of which we are a part, is built entirely upon the virtual mass of sub-atomic particles, rendering the material world virtual as well.

We seem to agree that the parts are not the same as what the parts are a part of.

Are In order for you to see into the true nature of things, into the nature of the energy field at the base of all existence, you would need to set Reason aside and see directly into its nature.

Not at all. I never need to abandon reason. Do that all YOU like.

But then, don't pretend to BE reasonable.

Are It is part of what you are, inside you, and therefore accessible. Science cannot do this because it's method is dissection, and dissection renders the observed a dead reality. One must see that the energy field and you are the same thing. Science cannot show you this.

You don’t like science.

Too bad for you.

 

[godnotgod]

I am afraid you have nothing left to say, as if you did in the first place. Therefore, I am cutting this discussion short, as it is a waste of time. You don't even qualify for a discussion. Now go to your room and remain there until further notice.

 

[godnotgod]

Are you a quantum particle?






I'm happy to hear it.

You aren’t quite as delusional as I first thought.





We seem to agree that the parts are not the same as what the parts are a part of.





Not at all. I never need to abandon reason. Do that all YOU like.

But then, don't pretend to BE reasonable.





You don’t like science.

Too bad for you.

You are consistently illogical, and are incapable of carrying on a meaningful discussion, because you interject your own meanings over what I intend. Tilt. Game over. Come back when you learn how to think correctly.

 

[Blastcat]

Man are you dense, or what!

I'm not so dense as to try the argument from ad hominem.

I NEVER SAID 'MATERIAL JUNK' DOES NOT EXIST! I said it is virtual. It's an ILLUSION! The Reality that is Pure Consciousness is what creates this virtual, illusory world we only think is real. Get it?

So let me revise what I said.. you imagine that reality is virtual.

More flaws in your precious system of Reason and Logic:


NO! I nver said I don't believe in reality! I said that what most of us think to be a 'material' reality is not a solid reality, as demonstrated both by Quantum Physics AND by the mystics of all time.

So, it’s not “solid” at a quantum level.


Is a wall at a quantum level and not SOLID?


If you can walk through a wall, I will call it an illusion. Right now, I call you delusional.

More flaws:


I have now told you at least ten times that I have no special knowledge; that I am not special in any way, and yet, you quite ignorantly and bull-headedly continue to insist that I am.

You are special in the sense that you hold to a delusion.

Many people are delusional.


You’re special in one sense and you’re not in another.

But you pretend to have special knowledge.

Therefore, that I am 'extraordianry' is only in YOUR mind, a notion you can't quite seem to shake off. What is wrong with you? Are you on drugs? .

I’m quite sure that your ad hominem argument sound reasonable to you. But when someone tells me seriously that reality isn’t real.. that’s its all a grand illusion.. I ask them questions.


When they don’t even try to make sense and tell me that they CANT USE reasoning or logic .. I tend to call them unreasonable and illogical.


And I also call them quite deluded.



I paid attention to you, and now call you deluded.

What is beyond Reason and cannot 'make sense' to the rational mind is because it is not based upon Reason. .

That’s why I call what you are saying UNREASONABLE.

That does not mean it is irrational; it only means it is non-rational. .

Yes it is NOT rational.


You aren’t being rational.

Just because it is not based upon Reason does not mean it is not valid; .

You have yet to demonstrate that any of your ideas have validity.

it only means it does not conform to the system of thought known as Reason, as if Reason were the Gold Standard. .

Well, you might have another system.. but it’s not REASON.


You aren’t being REASONABLE if you abandon REASON.. sorry.

Understand that Reason is based on Reality, but Reality is not based upon Reason, and by that I do not mean your everyday notion of 'hard' reality.

I’m quite sure that I have NO idea what you think REALITY is other than an illusion.


J

 

[Blastcat]

I am afraid you have nothing left to say, as if you did in the first place. Therefore, I am cutting this discussion short, as it is a waste of time. You don't even qualify for a discussion. Now go to your room and remain there until further notice.

Arrogance isn't an argument.

 

[godnotgod]

I'm not so dense as to try the argument from ad hominem.





So let me revise what I said.. you imagine that reality is virtual.






So, it’s not “solid” at a quantum level.


Is a wall at a quantum level and not SOLID?


If you can walk through a wall, I will call it an illusion. Right now, I call you delusional.







You are special in the sense that you hold to a delusion.

Many people are delusional.


You’re special in one sense and you’re not in another.

But you pretend to have special knowledge.






I’m quite sure that your ad hominem argument sound reasonable to you. But when someone tells me seriously that reality isn’t real.. that’s its all a grand illusion.. I ask them questions.


When they don’t even try to make sense and tell me that they CANT USE reasoning or logic .. I tend to call them unreasonable and illogical.


And I also call them quite deluded.



I paid attention to you, and now call you deluded.





That’s why I call what you are saying UNREASONABLE.








Yes it is NOT rational.


You aren’t being rational.






You have yet to demonstrate that any of your ideas have validity.





Well, you might have another system.. but it’s not REASON.


You aren’t being REASONABLE if you abandon REASON.. sorry.





I’m quite sure that I have NO idea what you think REALITY is other than an illusion.


J

An embarrassment of misguided gibberish. You're still putting words in my mouth.

I NEVER SAID that Reality is an illusion. Learn to read.

 

[godnotgod]

Arrogance isn't an argument.

You don't know what a properly constructed argument actually is. Does it take a mystic to teach you how to use your own Logic and Reason?

 

[godnotgod]

Is a wall at a quantum level and not SOLID?


If you can walk through a wall, I will call it an illusion. Right now, I call you delusioal.

OMG! What lunacy!

Daffy Duck goes to Quantum Physics class! aaarrrgghhh!

 

[godnotgod]

You have yet to demonstrate that any of your ideas have validity.

In Plato's Cave Allegory, one of the prisoners escapes and goes topside to see the Sun for the first time. He returns to the cave to tell the other prisoners, but they do not believe him. The escaped prisoner has no evidence to prove that the Sun is real. The only way the other prisoners can verify the Sun's reality is to go see for themselves. That is what I have been telling you all along, yet you continue to demand evidence for something that leaves no trace of its existence.

THERE IS NO FACTUAL EVIDENCE FOR THE SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE THAT CAN BE UNDERSTOOD VIA REASON, LOGIC, OR ANALYSIS!

The only way you can verify what I am saying is for you to go see for yourself!

Now go to your room!

 

[godnotgod]

Here....educate yourself: