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Featured Exorcism classes!!!

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by JJ50, Apr 17, 2018.

  1. JJ50

    JJ50 Active Member

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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43697573
    Completely crazy!:eek:

    Someone, who reckoned they were a Christian exorcist, took it upon themselves to try to rid our previous property of 'demons'. My husband and I thought it was hilarious, needless to say it didn't make the slightest bit of difference to the very weird activity, which took place there.
     
  2. Woberts

    Woberts The Perfumed Seneschal

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    That article was talking about deaths related to exorcisms, and that reminded me of Candace Newmaker.
    Candace Newmaker - Wikipedia
    I hope something like this doesn't happen again.
    Petscop, right? If you get the reference, leave some sort of sign..... like..... maybe a gift?;)
     
  3. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    Why is it crazy? Because, according to your worldview, the otherworlds and their denizens are not to be taken seriously? Your judgements reflect yourself.
     
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  4. Jumi

    Jumi Well-Known Member

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    Not a bad idea, since they believe in it.
     
  5. JJ50

    JJ50 Active Member

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    There is no evidence that demons exist, anymore than there is evidence any gods or an afterlife exist.
     
  6. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    Colored text is from the article:
    What are the objections?
    But there is widespread criticism of exorcism and concern that it has been used by a variety of religious practitioners to carry out abuse of children and other vulnerable people.

    Some victims have died in rituals linked to exorcism.
    More generally, there is a risk that people with illnesses such as epilepsy or schizophrenia could be misdiagnosed and miss out on medical treatment if their symptoms are ascribed to supernatural phenomena.

    In 2012, the UK government published a national action plan to help prevent abuse of children in religious rituals.

    So, ultimately, we're talking about a "procedure" that doesn't have a source for it's supposed efficacy that can actually be measured in reality. Even normal therapy has an actual human being as the "moderator" and who serves as the judge of progress made. In an exorcism, sure you have the priests, but even they have to defer to "God" - altogether unknowable and whose efficacy/involvement, again, CANNOT BE MEASURED OR JUDGED by anyone. Might you find "success" in some exorcisms? How do you determine a "success" as being entirely separate from coincidence? And what of the failures? I guess "God" just wasn't into it that time? It's "voodoo" (something the Catholic church doubtless decries as "the powers of darkness") under a different name.
     
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  7. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    Well scientifically and religiously in euro centric culture we have dead air, dead sun, dead space, dead cosmos, dead dirt it's all dead. In fact scientifically/religiously speaking it's simply either random accidental random noise or it is manipulated by external forces either laws or god or both upon the random accidental. So no of course the idea that the dead formerly living matter matters scientifically speaking only science matters interpretively. The flip side is how religion deals with the dead , which apparently is disconnected from reality based on the development of the intellect academically over time..
    We end up with two deeply conflicting narratives sharing a singular truth, the intellect determines reality which Seems kinda Well "normal"... and dysfunctional.
     
  8. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    Well love doesn't exist their is actually no empirical proof of it existing..there is no love particle. Nature is big very very big and fiction is a major fundamental aspect of nature. There is no such thing as fact existing and fiction not existing. Fiction can be accurate, facts can be fiction and not accurate..

    A stick bug is fiction to the bird..perceptions are a funny thing it affects how we see ourselves and the world around us, and the world around us effects our perceptions. Nature loves to hide...the last I checked people die and.after they die there are still people, so yes there is afterlife life. How big is life?unbounded.
     
  9. Woberts

    Woberts The Perfumed Seneschal

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    Your proof that there is an afterlife is that once people die they are still people? That makes no sense, however you put it.
     
  10. YmirGF

    YmirGF Bodhisattva

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    So... we should take flat Earthers, Doomsday predictions, chem trail believers et al, seriously just because some little sweethearts have convinced themselves of their reality? Seriously? I love ya, @Quintessence and try to keep an open mind but am vigilant against being so open my brain rolls out.
     
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  11. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    This simply isn't the case, so I'm going to translate this as "there's no evidence I personally find acceptable or compelling based on how I define these terms." Nothing wrong with that process considering every human does this as part of constructing their worldview. Labeling other worldviews as "crazy" because they differ from our own, however, is not something I find useful or productive.
     
  12. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    Not what I said. To translate what I said into layperson's terms, if you are attached to substance materialism and believe the be-all and end-all of reality is what you can measure with a yardstick, that doesn't make those who disagree with substance materialism (aka, who take things like the otherworlds seriously) "crazy."
     
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  13. YmirGF

    YmirGF Bodhisattva

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    It's not exactly a promising sign that they are not however. :D
     
  14. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    Thanks for providing some more substantive objections. I don't really buy into the exorcism process either... it doesn't have a good fit with my worldview. All the same, I respect the right of another culture to engage in their cultural practices. Where abuses happen, those can be handled like any other abuses.
     
  15. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    Fair enough, but I get rather sick and tired of the "crazy" and "delusional" tropes. I edited out a chunk of that response that whined about that. I seem to have trouble commenting on that without it becoming an inane rant. :sweat:
     
  16. YmirGF

    YmirGF Bodhisattva

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    I do understand and respect your thoughts on the matter.
     
  17. suncowiam

    suncowiam Well-Known Member

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    World views absolutely can be criticized because some can be very destructive. Just like you criticizing the capitalism or animal rights which is reflection of your own self.

    Please stop with this mentality of being victims.

    Just because you're tired of the "crazy" and "delusional" criticism doesn't mean it wasn't "crazy" or "delusional." Your feelings have little to do with the reality of what is being criticized.

    I'll side with you that the OP could have been structured differently but the point that some of these beliefs falling into the crazy and delusional categories, I feel is justified.

    My wife and her entire family are scared of ghosts because Vietnamese generally scare their kids with ghost stories to get them to "obey." Luckily, my parents never did the same with me. In a recent vacation, two of her families members would not sleep in a bed because the frame was made out of wood. Just something to do with a ghost story. Instead they slept on the ground in the living room. I stress to my wife to never scare our kids about ghosts and monsters because she is a prime example of the power of the mind. She's knows rationally that I'm right but she still considers that ghosts can actually exists. I reinforce it again and again, if she's seen one and if we've proven anything about ghosts. Obviously, the answers are there. Reality is, she and her family have built irrational fears out of a belief. It is irrational. It is delusional. It could also be considered crazy given the extent. These are the proper definitions being applied.

    If I don't say anything or criticize her and her family, then her fears could become worst or my kids could have adopted these same irrational beliefs.
     
  18. Debater Slayer

    Debater Slayer Born-again Glompist
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    Suspicious activity? Who you gonna call? Ghostbusters!

     
  19. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    What is death exactly? An event that happens to you? That's actually infinitely absurd fantasy!!!! That is absolutely pure Christian theological science fiction nonsense. Not even.biblical actually!!! So I am not sure why you are having problems here. What's after death? What exactly is death? All our modern religious secular views on death are derived from my nonsense degree, theology, the intellect. It's stupid because you "believe" that the statement "after death" is even valid its not because it's Christian theology nonsense.

    I made it extremely clear that reality as we see it is 99.999999999999999% dead inert random accidental stuff. Religion science only disagree on minor details in mutual agreement on What dead is
     
    #19 David T, Apr 17, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
  20. Woberts

    Woberts The Perfumed Seneschal

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    Is this supposed to be sarcastic?
     
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