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Exodus 16...Sabbath is tied to manna...it predates the 10 commandments

AdamjEdgar

Active Member
The Tanakh is not concerned with "salvation." That is a Christian idea, found in the Christian New Testament. I find that Christians often mistakenly assume that Jews are similarly interested in getting saved but that we just do it a different way. This is not the case.
Do you not also read the mosaic accounts about creation? Would you not agree that sin enterring into this world, through the deception of Eve, required a restoration.process and that that process is illustrated in the Old Testament Sanctuary service?
How do you.describe the purpose of the sanctuary service...what it means? Wouldnt you agree it directly explains the redemption process incl atonement for sin? We were separated from God when Adam and Eve sinned...redemption and restoration are the reversal of that alienation from our creator.

If you say, the messiah only comes ro setup an earthly kingdom...what happens to all those who have already died in the last 6000 years?

Also, would you not agree that the Exodus was a calling out of Gods people from the bondage of Egypt and that the punishment the Egyptians received at this time are not also a direct illustration to the very idea of Salvation of humankind from the bandage of sin and the same punishment that the scapegoat azazeel receives on the day of atonement?
 
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IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Isaiah 53:11
I already told you, this entire chapter refers to Israel.
Your verse from Psalms had no relevance to the topic at all.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Do you not also read the mosaic accounts about creation? Would you not agree that sin enterring into this world, through the deception of Eve, required a restoration.process and that that process is illustrated in the Old Testament Sanctuary service?
Do you not understand wthat the sanctuary service represents...or should I say, directly.explains the redemption process incl atonement for sin?
To a jewish religion follower, what do the sacrifices represent on the day of atonement?

If you say, the messiah only.comes ro setup an earthly kingdom...what happens to all those who have already died in the last 6000 years?
I read the entire Torah once a year along with my synagogue. I'm quite familiar with the creation myths. They are wonderful. But they are not history. There is no reason to assume the need for any "Savior." "The righteous man falls seven times, and rises up again." IOW all we really need is repentance.

Homo Sapiens Sapiens have been around for a good 200,000 years. The earth itself is 5.4 billion years old.

What happens when we die is irrelevant to me. The way I live my life is not based on this. If there is an afterlife, then I'm sure serving God every day will take care of everything I need in anticipation of that afterlife. If there is no afterlife, then I have lived the best life possible.

There is nothing about the story of the Exodus that is in any way prophetic or symbolic of something else. It stands at face value. It is about God delivering Israel from slavery with a mighty hand, and nothing else.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
So what? You're obviously wrong.
ROFL You seem to think that by merely making that proclamation, everyone is going to accept what you say. Hardly. Again, I gave you Isaiah 41:8 which point blank identifies Israel as the servant. You on the other hand have absolutely nothing saying the servant is the messiah.
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
ROFL You seem to think that by merely making that proclamation, everyone is going to accept what you say.
No, you're wrong because your own source text doesn't even support your position.

Again, I gave you Isaiah 41:8 which point blank identifies Israel as the servant.
Straw man. It was always about how the righteous servant was different. Your argument implies that there is no difference between the righteous and the sinful.
You on the other hand have absolutely nothing saying the servant is the messiah.
Another straw man, since that isn't an argument that I have made on this thread.
 
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IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
No, you're wrong because your own source text doesn't even support your position.


Straw man. It was always about how the righteous servant was different. Your argument implies that there is no difference between the righteous and the sinful.

Another straw man, since that isn't an argument that I have made on this thread.
Ebionite: Israel has ALWAYS had an obedient remnant.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
That's just your assumption. Obedience and righteousness are different things.
No they aren't. A righteous man is the one who obeys, and when he falls, repents. That is the only definition of righteous there is.

Proverbs 24:16 For a righteous man falleth seven times, and riseth up again, But the wicked stumble under adversity.
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
free from guilt or sin
Consistent with;

He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Isaiah 53:11

But distinct from:

The ox knoweth his owner, and the *** his master's crib: [but] Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider.
Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken YHWH, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.
Isaiah 1:3-4

Justice rewards good for good and evil for evil.

Therefore will I divide him [a portion] with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Isaiah 53:12
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Consistent with;

He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Isaiah 53:11

But distinct from:

The ox knoweth his owner, and the *** his master's crib: [but] Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider.
Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken YHWH, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.
Isaiah 1:3-4

Justice rewards good for good and evil for evil.

Therefore will I divide him [a portion] with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Isaiah 53:12
You must have missed this the first time I posted it, so here it is again:

Proverbs 24:16 For a righteous man falleth seven times, and riseth up again, But the wicked stumble under adversity.

IOW, the difference between the righteous and the wicked is that the righteous repent, and the wicked do not.
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
You must have missed this the first time I posted it, so here it is again:
No, I saw it. The thing about repentance is that you can't repent if you don't believe you're in the wrong. It's about knowledge.

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy Elah, I will also forget thy children.
Hosea 4:6

... which relates to the role of the righteous servant:

He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Isaiah 53:11
 

AdamjEdgar

Active Member
I read the entire Torah once a year along with my synagogue. I'm quite familiar with the creation myths. They are wonderful. But they are not history. There is no reason to assume the need for any "Savior." "The righteous man falls seven times, and rises up again." IOW all we really need is repentance.

Homo Sapiens Sapiens have been around for a good 200,000 years. The earth itself is 5.4 billion years old.

What happens when we die is irrelevant to me. The way I live my life is not based on this. If there is an afterlife, then I'm sure serving God every day will take care of everything I need in anticipation of that afterlife. If there is no afterlife, then I have lived the best life possible.

There is nothing about the story of the Exodus that is in any way prophetic or symbolic of something else. It stands at face value. It is about God delivering Israel from slavery with a mighty hand, and nothing else.
You truly have a bizarre belief. You.claim to follow Judaism, that clearly offered sacrifices of sheep's and goats for millenia that symbolise the reqiest for forgiveness of sin, you follow a religion that understood fully that the sanctuary service demonstrates the restoration process...and yet you are for all intents and purposes lost. There is no salvation for you because you do not believe in it.
Considering that whether or not genesis creation account is literal or not, you have not understood the point of the fall of mankind into sin and the need for salvation.

You do not even appear to be in waiting for a messiah who saves his people (a repeat of the Exodus if you like) If you cannot see that this means salvation, then you really are a twit.
 
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