Existential Buddhism versus Theravada Buddhism

[Twilight Hue]

Hinduism and Buddhism are incompatible with some exceptions regarding physicality and techniques as it applies to meditation. There's certainly a relationship by which Buddhism came out of Hindu culture, yet we're talkin about two distinct paths.

Otherwise it stands to reason that Siddhārtha Gautama would not likely have left the palace seeking out answers if it was just simply a branch off.

Maybe confusion arises because Hinduism is a welcoming religion by which Buddhism can be incorporated into Hinduism (as among other religions), and Hinduism is still an aspect of Dharma as viewed through the eyes of a person practicing Buddhism.

It's why it's so easy to distinguish Hinduism in drag from the various forms of Buddhism. In this case, it needs less cowbell. ;0)

 

[Shantanu]

Hinduism and Buddhism are incompatible with some exceptions regarding physicality and techniques as it applies to meditation. There's certainly a relationship by which Buddhism came out of Hindu culture, yet we're talkin about two distinct paths.

Otherwise it stands to reason that Siddhārtha Gautama would not likely have left the palace seeking out answers if it was just simply a branch off.

Maybe confusion arises because Hinduism is a welcoming religion by which Buddhism can be incorporated into Hinduism (as among other religions), and Hinduism is still an aspect of Dharma as viewed through the eyes of a person practicing Buddhism.

It's why it's so easy to distinguish Hinduism in drag from the various forms of Buddhism. In this case, it needs less cowbell. ;0)

The idea of liberation from this world (samsara) is central to both paths, would you not say?

 

[Twilight Hue]

The idea of liberation from this world (samsara) is central to both paths, would you not say?

I suppose it would depend upon how you approach liberation.

 

[Shantanu]

I suppose it would depend upon how you approach liberation.

The common objective of both paths is therefore clear: liberation. It is just that Buddha took a different line which Hindus did not accept. And today I can provide the justification for why Hindus did not accept Buddha's path of dharma but went along the existential path.

 

[crossfire]

The common objective of both paths is therefore clear: liberation. It is just that Buddha took a different line which Hindus did not accept. And today I can provide the justification for why Hindus did not accept Buddha's path of dharma but went along the existential path.

Good! We went our separate ways! Now if we can just get the creepy stalkers to get over it and quit stalking!

 

[Shantanu]

Good! We went our separate ways! Now if we can just get the creepy stalkers to get over it and quit stalking!

So you do not agree with this attempt to unify the two paths using the methodology of Existential Buddhism?

 

[crossfire]

So you do not agree with this attempt to unify the two paths using the methodology of Existential Buddhism?

Buddhists withdrew from that society and later escaped it. Why would we want to go back?

 

[Shantanu]

Buddhists withdrew from that society and later escaped it. Why would we want to go back?

The Dalai Lama of Mahayana Buddhism is seeking refuge with his tibetan Buddhists in among the Hindus.

 

[crossfire]

The Dalai Lama of Mahayana Buddhism is seeking refuge with his tibetan Buddhists in among the Hindus.

He's not calling himself a Hindu, nor are the Hindus insisting that he call himself one?

 

[Shantanu]

He's not calling himself a Hindu, nor are the Hindus insisting that he call himself one?

We Hindus will never ever impose our religious label on anyone: we do not proselytize, or ask anyone to join us. If they do we welcome them with open arms. That is the great mark of Hinduism. Faiths of all descriptions can live among us with or without calling themselves Hindus. That is how we accommodate diversity in Nature. It is part of our dharma in Existential Buddhism.

 

[Twilight Hue]

The common objective of both paths is therefore clear: liberation. It is just that Buddha took a different line which Hindus did not accept. And today I can provide the justification for why Hindus did not accept Buddha's path of dharma but went along the existential path.

I approach liberation in terms of sunyata.
Buddhism as a raft.

I'm not entirely sure if Hindus would be able to accommodate Buddhism very well if not first willing to let go of all the baggage upon entering the Gateless Gate.

 

[Shantanu]

I approach liberation in terms of sunyata.
Buddhism as a raft.

I'm not entirely sure if Hindus would be able to accommodate Buddhism very well if not first willing to let go of all the baggage upon entering the Gateless Gate.

I had to look up what is sunyata: It comes from Mahayana Buddhism, not Theravada Buddhism

 

[Twilight Hue]

I had to look up what is sunyata: It comes from Mahayana Buddhism, not Theravada Buddhism

Yes.

Prajñāpāramitā as it's called in Sanskrit, or
The Perfection of Wisdom involving the Heart Sutra.

 

[Shantanu]

Yes.

Prajñāpāramitā as it's called in Sanskrit, or
The Perfection of Wisdom.

I am not into Perfection of Wisdom as given here:
The Realization of Sunyata
In the Mahayana Six Perfections (paramitas), the sixth perfection is prajna paramita -- the perfection of wisdom. It is said of the perfection of wisdom that it contains all the other perfections, and without it no perfection is possible. "Wisdom," in this case, is nothing other than the realization of sunyata. This realization is said to be the door to enlightenment.
"Realization" is emphasized because an intellectual understanding of a doctrine of emptiness is not the same thing as wisdom. To be wisdom, emptiness first must be intimately and directly perceived and experienced. Even so, an intellectual understanding of sunyata is the usual first step to realization. So, what is it?

I just believe in taking each moment at a time and act wisely for that moment without expecting any outcome of the dharma manifested. This is the practice of Existential Buddhism. But I know people like advaitists @Aupmanyav who are into sunyata (I believe: - you have to ask him about this). This thread is focused on the similarity between Existential Buddhism and Theravada Buddhism, the most original of Buddha-ism; so that we can think of what to do in order to reconcile the differences between the two paths.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I approach liberation in terms of sunyata. Buddhism as a raft.

I'm not entirely sure if Hindus would be able to accommodate Buddhism very well if not first willing to let go of all the baggage upon entering the Gateless Gate.

Nowhere Man, I see that it is a 'same faith forum', but allow me answer your comment on Hinduism. The burden in Hinduism is optional. I am a Hindu (very impressed by Buddha, consider him as my guru), and I do not have any burden. I have been in and out of the Gateless Gate all the time. Sunyata holds no fear for me - Zero-energy Universe.

 

[Shantanu]

Nowhere Man, I see that it is a 'same faith forum', but allow me answer your comment on Hinduism. The burden in Hinduism is optional. I am a Hindu (very impressed by Buddha, consider him as my guru), and I do not have any burden. I have been in and out of the Gateless Gate all the time. Sunyata holds no fear for me - Zero-energy Universe.

This thread has been moved from Same Faith Debates to Religious Debates so you are free to contribute more widely on Sunyata as being the Ultimate Reality. So please elaborate on how reaching the 'perfection of wisdom' and realisation of sunyata are related. @Nowhere Man

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Actually, it was a rather sinister way of hijacking Buddhism, to first declare Buddha to be an avatar of Vishnu and then teach Vaishnavism under the guise of Buddhism. This is where the Four Dharma Seals came in handy--to discern Buddhadharma from "sorta-looks-like-Buddhism in drag."

Here is a Reference for Buddha as incarnation of God:


In Vaishnava Hinduism, the historic Buddha or Gautama Buddha, is considered to be an avatar of the Hindu god Vishnu.[1] Of the ten major avatars of Vishnu, Vaishnavites believe Gautama Buddha to be the ninth and most recent incarnation.[2][3]

Buddha's portrayal in Hinduism varies. In some texts such as the Puranas, he is portrayed as an avatar born to mislead those who deny the Vedic knowledge.[3][4][note 1] In others, such as the 13th-century Gitagovinda of Vaishnava poet Jayadeva, Vishnu incarnates as the Buddha to teach and to end animal slaughter.[2] In contemporary Hinduism, state Constance Jones and James D. Ryan, Buddha is revered by Hindus who usually consider "Buddhism to be another form of Hinduism".[4]

Gautama Buddha in Hinduism - Wikipedia

I believe, Buddha was a Messiah that Vaishnavites were expecting, but not all accepted Him, just as Jesus was a Messiah of the Jews, but not all accepted Him.

 

[Shantanu]

Here is a Reference for Buddha as incarnation of God:


In Vaishnava Hinduism, the historic Buddha or Gautama Buddha, is considered to be an avatar of the Hindu god Vishnu.[1] Of the ten major avatars of Vishnu, Vaishnavites believe Gautama Buddha to be the ninth and most recent incarnation.[2][3]

Buddha's portrayal in Hinduism varies. In some texts such as the Puranas, he is portrayed as an avatar born to mislead those who deny the Vedic knowledge.[3][4][note 1] In others, such as the 13th-century Gitagovinda of Vaishnava poet Jayadeva, Vishnu incarnates as the Buddha to teach and to end animal slaughter.[2] In contemporary Hinduism, state Constance Jones and James D. Ryan, Buddha is revered by Hindus who usually consider "Buddhism to be another form of Hinduism".[4]

Gautama Buddha in Hinduism - Wikipedia

I believe, Buddha was a Messiah that Vaishnavites were expecting, but not all accepted Him, just as Jesus was a Messiah of the Jews, but not all accepted Him.

I believed that Sakyamuni Buddha was an avatar of Sri Krishna/Durga as I do not regard Vishnu as being the supreme Hindu Deity, merely the deity of the rajasic guna in the guna consciousness triad of Brahman, Vishnu and Shiva, but Buddha did not have access to the latest scientific knowledge and modern tools to be able to forumulate the correct theology. Existential Buddhism is today's attempt to do that as it still focuses on cessation of suffering and liberation from sansara as well as nirvana through the realisation of the Ultimate Reality, God. This means that whilst Buddha was an incarnation of God in his time Bahai's' like yourself may wish to consider whether the historical attribution of Buddha being an incarnation of Vishnu is the final word on the theology or whether a new incarnation of God is going to update the theology soon if science which continually updates knowledge does not have anything further to tell us concerning the Ultimate Reality (sunyata- Zero Energy Universe).

 

[crossfire]

Here is a Reference for Buddha as incarnation of God:


In Vaishnava Hinduism, the historic Buddha or Gautama Buddha, is considered to be an avatar of the Hindu god Vishnu.[1] Of the ten major avatars of Vishnu, Vaishnavites believe Gautama Buddha to be the ninth and most recent incarnation.[2][3]

Buddha's portrayal in Hinduism varies. In some texts such as the Puranas, he is portrayed as an avatar born to mislead those who deny the Vedic knowledge.[3][4][note 1] In others, such as the 13th-century Gitagovinda of Vaishnava poet Jayadeva, Vishnu incarnates as the Buddha to teach and to end animal slaughter.[2] In contemporary Hinduism, state Constance Jones and James D. Ryan, Buddha is revered by Hindus who usually consider "Buddhism to be another form of Hinduism".[4]

Gautama Buddha in Hinduism - Wikipedia

I believe, Buddha was a Messiah that Vaishnavites were expecting, but not all accepted Him, just as Jesus was a Messiah of the Jews, but not all accepted Him.

I believed that Sakyamuni Buddha was an avatar of Sri Krishna/Durga as I do not regard Vishnu as being the supreme Hindu Deity, merely the deity of the rajasic guna in the guna consciousness triad of Brahman, Vishnu and Shiva, but Buddha did not have access to the latest scientific knowledge and modern tools to be able to forumulate the correct theology. Existential Buddhism is today's attempt to do that as it still focuses on cessation of suffering and liberation from sansara as well as nirvana through the realisation of the Ultimate Reality, God. This means that whilst Buddha was an incarnation of God in his time Bahai's' like yourself may wish to consider whether the historical attribution of Buddha being an incarnation of Vishnu is the final word on the theology or whether a new incarnation of God is going to update the theology soon if science which continually updates knowledge does not have anything further to tell us concerning the Ultimate Reality (sunyata- Zero Energy Universe).

Two examples of attempts to hijack Buddhism. Buddha himself said he was not a god.

 

[Shantanu]

Two examples of attempts to hijack Buddhism. Buddha himself said he was not a god.

Buddha would not have known that he was God. God does not work like that in humanity. God works covertly at all times.
Secondly, no one is trying to hijack Buddhism: Sakyamuni Buddha was regarded rightly as an incarnation of God (Sri Krishna/Durga) by Hindus but Buddhism was forumlated to have more Buddhas reappearing from era to era to update knowledge based on the latest scientific discoveries so differences emerge in the different schools.