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Exact Young Earth Age?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by dorsk188, Aug 10, 2005.

  1. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Sorry, Wolf, didn't mean to ignore you.

    I really can't answer why these animals aren't all together in one big group, other than to say they branched out into their own ecological niches. I'm not a zoologist.

    As for your people having a 10,000-year-old history, that would predate even Adam and Eve.
     
  2. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    May I ask, Ceridwen, why, if you guys are so adamant that science contradicts the Bible, and the Bible is myth, etc., you guys are here in this religious section? If this is the Religious Education section, I'd hate to see the others.
    I'm not trying to be funny - I just though I'd help some people understand the universe a little better by understanding the Bible better.
    Perhaps I'm the odd-man-out, and I should vacate so as not to incite a riot here or insult anyone's intelligence?
     
  3. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    ok, having done a bit of adding... using the bible and the secular histories of various cultures, this is what I was able to come up with. :D

    adding up the patriarchs till Noah begats his kids gives you 3026 years. Now this time MUST happin before the story of the Tower of Babylon wich must happin before the arrival of Egypt and other 'confused languages'.
    add a year for his time on the ark. 3027
    he lived 350 years after the flood 3377
    now they don't give a time ammount for how long it took from Noahs death to the building of the tower of Babel.... but it must have been a good ammount of time for a handful of people on a boat to make a major civilization. oh wait... it was done by Noahs grandkids...
    now Egyption History is traced back to 3,400 bc. and goes untill 30bc.
    from there we have nearly another 2000 years...

    doesnt' add up to 6000 very well does it.
    almost 9000 years...

    wa:do
     
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  4. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Could you offer some examples?
     
  5. panjan4

    panjan4 New Member

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    After reading the opening words of Genesis it tell us: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” (Genesis 1:1) So, do these words of Genesis say that this happened about ten thousand years ago? No, I can't see no time period. “The beginning” could therefore have been billions of years ago.

    However, right at “the beginning,” the Bible puts an intelligent being, the Creator, in control of the creative work. I feel many scientists are uncomfortable with this idea, it harmonizes with the conclusions of astronomers that the universe did have a beginning, that it is very well ordered, and that it is governed by definite laws. An orderly arrangement based on law can come only from an intelligent mind. While science has explained many of these laws to us, Genesis alone introduces us to the Lawgiver.

    The account in Genesis then goes on to outline the famous six “days” of creation. These days, though, were not the time during which the material of the earth and the universe was created. That had already happened “in the beginning.” The six days of creation were, rather, the periods of time during which the primordial, inhospitable earth was slowly made fit for habitation.

    I wondered, was each one of those six days a literal 24-hour day then? That is not what Genesis says. The word “day” in the Hebrew language (the language in which Genesis was written) can mean long periods of time, even thousands of years. (Psalm 90:4; Genesis 2:4.) For example, I feel “the seventh day” in which we now live is thousands of years long. (Genesis 2:2, 3) Hence, the evidence shows that the entire period of six days should be viewed as tens of thousands of years long.
     
  6. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

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    A few problems here. First of all, astronomers do not claim that the universe is "well ordered", in fact, the opposite is true. A closed system, such as the human body, can seem ordered, but the universe as a whole is moving more towards disorder with every release of energy.

    Second of all, a "creator" does not automatically insinuate definate laws, or any of the other things you mentioned. You are attributing human characteristics to your god.

    Thirdly, the idea of an Intelligent Designer does not make scientists "uncomfortable". Creationists love to put a little spin on their arguments by saying that scientists reject the idea of a god because it makes them "uncomfortable", when the reality is that scientists reject god because there is no evidence, and the job of a scientist, unfortunately, is to strictly deal with evidence.

    How do you know that?

    Do you have evidence to support this outlandish claim of yours or can you simply not fathom the opposite, so you assume it must not be so?
     
  7. joeboonda

    joeboonda Well-Known Member

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  8. joeboonda

    joeboonda Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

    Then he did the rest of creation, and after each verse, it says, "and the evening and the morning were the (second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth) day.

    So he called a day a day as in 24 hours. Pretty straight forward to me. He could have done it in a split second, but later it says he did it for us for a pattern to follow as he rested on the seventh day.
     
  9. panjan4

    panjan4 New Member

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    Thanks for your intuitve reply.

    Firstly, I feel astronomers are the experts and they continue to learn the precise characteristics & physics of all they have discovered or seen, they know well the order of the stars and planet of just this solar system, which many would agree is well ordered, if the Sun was a fraction closer to the earth it could be dangerous, I don't think the universe can be compared with the human body, I do feel that God who created the universe, also created the human body which is also well ordered. Since the universe was created, it has required controlling and order, God has done this.

    Secondly, The creator does have definite laws in place, what about the law of gravity? It is a strong source of energy and without being controlled or organized THEN this universe would have been in disorder long before now. I would also never attribute human characteristics to God, I know from his word the bible that he is the most highest and superior being in the universe and have the utmost respect and reverential fear for him.

    Thirdly, I do feel that for scientists to accept Evolution is easier than to admit that Creation is the true source of all living things, what evidence have scientists found that completely proves Evolution as fact and proven.

    And finally m when I said that an orderly arrangement based on law can come only from an intelligent mind, I know this because everything that is built, created, designed, has to have a creator/maker, things do not evolve then govern themselves and apply laws to enable them to exist.
     
  10. Ulver

    Ulver Active Member

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    The first thing I want to say is that, for the most part, humanity is stupid. Just plain old dumb. As hard in the head as a rock. History and the present prove this well enough. People generally just have no smarts about them.

    How do you explain Oil, Gas and Coal? Things that we know take forever to make (apparently longer then you say the earth has existed). Science has a good way to explain it, but you suggest we should forget that and just believe they were put there out of nothing before them?

    uhm, I don't think I'm connecting to what your trying to get at. Just confused at how that seems logical.

    That may be an aspect of your individual faith, but it is not an objective fact for everyone.

    I agree with that, but I disagree with your views on science.

    When something ages I would imagine that it existed during that time. The prepostion that ex nihilo creation is true would mean that God would work that within science if science is in harmony with God. Therefor why would creation by ex nihilio only be exhibited a few thousand years ago (accourding to your time-table) and not seen in practice now?

    np: YOB- Doom #2
     
  11. Ulver

    Ulver Active Member

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    Please do not bash all religion and the merit of religion just because your frustrated with some fundamentalist talk. We all have different beliefs and calling all religion unadaptable and "stuck in the mud" is insulting to far more then just the fundamentalists.

    For example of how that statement is wrong... many Buddhists have said that if the metaphysics of their faith were proven wrong, then they would adapt and change because it still wouldn't detract from the main teaching in their faith.

    If that were the case then christianity would only be under one church, but it's not. That is because there is criticism and difference of views/opinions on the bible and Jesus. Hence why there are hundreds of different types of churches.

    like someone else said.... Source please?!

    Science doesn't say Evolution is absolute because that wouldn't be science. Science is based on observation. Which means laws of science change as the results of observations change. This is done carefully with scrutiny though, because in some cases of observation there are exceptions. That's why any rule is usually only held as true when most in the scientific community can agree that the majority of the data is so. Yet any rule of science can change. The laws science holds as true can always change if we learn more by advance of technology or by pure chance.

    np: Opeth- When
     
  12. Harvster

    Harvster Member

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    Just a quick question that i would like to ask. How old was Adam & Eve when they fell into sin?, that is between the end of Genisis 2 and the begining of Genisis 3.
     
  13. Fade

    Fade The Great Master Bates

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    Okay lets assume for a moment that you are correct and that the bible contains a complete chronological list of dates that prove the world is 6000 years old(or has been in existence for that length of time). If you know this for a fact you should be able to tell me exactly when the great flood occured. If you would be so kind as to inform me so I can share the revelation with the scientific community it would be most appreciated.

    As an aside you are still using the bible as evidence for the validity of the bible. Which as you rightly stated is a circular argument. until you can provide some supporting evidence for what you seem to think the bible says then your argument/belief is still nothing more than hot air.
     
  14. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    c 2349 bc
     
  15. Fade

    Fade The Great Master Bates

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    Hmm, that is very interesting. I guess somebody forgot to tell the Egyptions and Chinese that they should have been busy drowning at that time.

    Can you provide any evidence for this date that isn't pulled from the bible?
     
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  16. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    No thanks, Fade. I'm through with your sarcasm and the way you ask me questions. If you would care to exhibit a modicum of respect that I'm entitled to, I may do so.

    I said the other day that God embedded age into His creation, and got slaughtered with question after question until I left the website in frustration. That won't happen again.

    So the next time I make a comment on THIS website, and I even detect a hint of sarcasm, I'll exercise my right to ignore.

    I tried being very nice to everyone, and I don't plan to change that.

    You're still my friend, though, and I welcome your input.
     
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  17. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    Perhaps I can be less sarcastic - how is it, AV1611, that the Egyptians and Chinese lived through a great flood without recording it but continuing a narrative of their civilization.
     
  18. Fade

    Fade The Great Master Bates

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    Just in case you don't know http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/EGYPT/OLD.HTM

    The old Kingdom is one of the most important periods in Egyption history and there ain't no mention of a flood. Not to mention it's impossible for them to have existed as a civilization if they were wiped out by said flood.

    Do you not see that what you believe is clearly untrue?
     
  19. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    In other words, who make claims in a debate forum and then get upset when asked to substantiate those claims. Does that not seem both irresponsible and (forgive me) a bit childish?
     
  20. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    I don't know.
     
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