• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

evolution question

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
you don't throw the bible away because it is a collection of tales to instuct one on a cultures way of living a good life... it doesn't HAVE to be literal truth to provide meaning.

anyway, Fat Kat... you skipped my people in your little tale. :rolleyes:
Naturally we Native Americans were first and the white people just got scared by seeing Apollo zooming around like a fool. :biglaugh:

wa:do
 

[jD]

New Member
Evolutionary Thinking and Race
In 1859 evolutionist Charles Darwin had his book The Origin of Species published. In it he taught that there was a competition between the different varieties of living things and that the best fitted to live in a given environment would survive and perpetuate their kind. The less fit forms would die out. Thus developed the saying, "the survival of the fittest." In 1871 Darwin wrote a book entitled "The Descent of Man" in which he taught that men and apes descended from one common origin.
These books had a harmful effect on race relations. As anthropologist Sheila Patterson explained: "The theory of evolution replaced previous rationalizations justifying the domination of the white races. Since the latter had survived and been more successful than the other races, they must be superior to them, not only in organization and efficiency, but in every other field, including the mental and moral." This attitude made European nations in the 19th century more determined to expand their colonies. It also helped inspire Hitler in his plan to develop a "master race" and eradicate the Jews and others considered unfit to live.
It is noteworthy, however, that both Darwin and most modern scientists agree that mankind has one common origin. As the Encyclopedia Americana states: "Mankind is a single biological species." Science writer Amram Scheinfeld recently wrote: "Science now corroborates what most great religions have long been preaching: Human beings of all races are . . . descended from the same first man."
So although the Bible was not written by scientists, yet it was correct in stating that "God . . . made out of one man every nation of men, to dwell upon the entire surface of the earth."—Acts 17:24, 26.
What Causes Variety in Races?
When the sperm cell from a man unites with the egg cell of a woman, a new human life is conceived even though the parents are of different races. Yet within that very small cell are thousands of genes, the transmitters of hereditary traits. These traits reflect characteristics seen in the parents or other ancestors.
The genetic makeup of the first man, Adam, was such that extensive variety could develop among his offspring—in such things as skin color, hair color and texture, body size and facial characteristics. This variety was increased by language and geographical differences.
Concerning geographical isolation the Encyclopedia Americana explains: "When lands inhabited by two or more populations are separated by seas, mountain ranges, deserts, or other obstacles to travel, the members of these populations are perforce confined to their respective territories. . . . races will be separated by gene frequency gaps corresponding to the geographical boundaries. . . . this condition is approached in Africa, where the Sahara Desert forms a boundary between the European (white) and the African (Negro) races. The Sahara is very sparsely inhabited and difficult for man to traverse; it constitutes an isolating agent of long standing."
Thus genetics, language and geographical barriers help to explain why distinctive racial groups appear in all parts of the earth.
Skin Color
According to the Bible, all humans descend from Noah, through his three sons Shem, Japheth and Ham. Genesis chapter 10 lists 70 descendants of Noah saying: "From these the nations were spread about in the earth." (Genesis 10:32) One of the many ways in which these nations have been classified is with reference to skin color. In the skin of all normal humans is a blackish brown pigment called melanin.
Noah and his three sons all had a measure of this dark pigment. From Shem came the Babylonians, the Assyrians, the Jews and the Arabs who vary from fair to light-brown skin. The descendants of Japheth, who include the Indo-European races, vary from light skin to dark brown. As for Ham (meaning swarthy or sun-burnt), some, but not all, of his descendants had dark skin. The Egyptians, with light-brown skin, descended from Ham’s son Mizraim. Ham’s son Canaan, who was cursed by God because of bad conduct, was the forefather of the light-skinned Canaanites.
In agreement with this, Dr. Hughes, a professor of anthropology at the University of Toronto, said: "On every continent, and in every geographically defined race, there is a considerable range of variation in . . . skin pigmentation, . . . the Tamils of South India are considered by many anthropologists to be members of the Caucasoid [white Indo-European] major race, yet in skin pigmentation they are darker than many African Negroes."
All of this shows how foolish it is to interpret God’s curse on Canaan as referring to a dark-skinned people. All divisions of mankind have a dark pigment in their skin, some to a lesser, others to a greater extent.
Are There Superior or Inferior Races?
Recently, in the U.S., a study was made involving black children adopted by 101 white families of above-average education. Psychology Today magazine reporting on this said that the black children, in I.Q. tests, "scored well above the national averages of both blacks and whites, especially if they were adopted early in life."
Even so, by what standards is race superiority or inferiority to be measured? By the standards of Western civilization with its alarming increase of heart disease, cancer and other illnesses, with its shocking increase in sexual perversion and violence? Or by the standards of some of the so-called primitive tribes, like the Yamana, Chenchu or Congo pygmies? Consider how an expert, the late Professor Kern, described the typical member of these tribes:
"All his life he delights in the company of children, and he knows and loves even the smallest living creatures which inhabit his territory. . . . He is . . . tender and patient with invalids and old people . . . and he is contented with his life and work out of doors. . . . there is no civilisation in which existence is happier. Suicide is rarer here than anywhere else."
In considering these few facts, we can appreciate the view of mankind’s Creator as to the different races. Under inspiration of God’s holy spirit the apostle Peter, himself a Jew, said: "I now realize that it is true that God treats everyone on the same basis. Whoever fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him, no matter what race he belongs to."—Acts 10:34, Today’s English Version.
Have the churches of Christendom always treated "everyone on the same basis"? Consider how the Catholic and Lutheran Churches supported Hitler’s scheme to produce a "master race." And for centuries the Catholic Church taught that Negroes were a cursed race. John F. Maxwell states in his book Slavery and the Catholic Church that this view "apparently survived until 1873 when Pope Pius IX attached an indulgence to a prayer for the ‘wretched Ethiopians in Central Africa that almighty God may at length remove the curse of Cham [Ham] from their hearts.’" (Italics ours) And even to this day some church organizations openly practice racial discrimination.
Regardless of how politicians and religionists view the matter, the Bible and science indicate that all races are equal and descend from a common source. Interestingly, The Great Soviet Encyclopedia, 1970, Vol. 2, page 149, refers to the "scientific concept of the equality of the races" and admits the "scientific validation" of humanity’s single origin.
*mod edit this was taken from a term paper that can be bought here: http://www.termpaperslab.com/term-papers/60379.html
 

The Black Whirlwind

Well-Known Member
painted wolf said:
you don't throw the bible away because it is a collection of tales to instuct one on a cultures way of living a good life... it doesn't HAVE to be literal truth to provide meaning.

anyway, Fat Kat... you skipped my people in your little tale. :rolleyes:
Naturally we Native Americans were first and the white people just got scared by seeing Apollo zooming around like a fool. :biglaugh:

wa:do
damn, i thought i included them! well, since appolo was so far away from America, but not as far away as Asia, you only got tan skin instead of being unscathed, blinded, or scorched. there you are. and it was Appolo's son that was zooming around like a fool because he couldn't control the sun horses.
 

gtrsgrls

Member
AtheistAJ said:
You Christians and Jews (and some others) believe god created two people first, Adam and from his rib Eve. Well if god only created two of them how come we have so many different races now? Did he create them all later for some reason? Why is it that some of you find evolution so hard to believe in when we all came from one-celled organisms before our own eyes (seamen)?
Have you heard the story in the Bible about the tower of Babel?In my opinion,that could have been where it started.I'm not against evolution after creation.I'm against evolution as the creator of our universe.Something can't come from nothing.That's how it is.
 

JerryL

Well-Known Member
Have you heard the story in the Bible about the tower of Babel?
God gets afraid of the ability of people to accomplish anything and so sabotages them bringing melennia of suffering? Yes, I know the story.

In my opinion,that could have been where it started.
Where what started? Is your opinion supported by any factual data?

I'm not against evolution after creation.I'm against evolution as the creator of our universe.
Me too. Are you aware of someone who believes that the universe was created by evolution?

Something can't come from nothing.That's how it is.
So where did God come from?
 

AtheistAJ

Member
Nobody touched this thread in days because they can't provide an explanation to the last question above.

"Can't have something from nothing."
- "What about Jehovah?"
- "Well you gotta have something!"
- "You gotta have Jehovah to have something?"
- "Enough already, that's different! :banghead3 :banghead3 :banghead3 "
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
AtheistAJ said:
Nobody touched this thread in days because they can't provide an explanation to the last question above.
It's actually a rather underwhelming question in my opinion.
 

seeking_him13

New Member
AtheistAJ said:
You Christians and Jews (and some others) believe god created two people first, Adam and from his rib Eve. Well if god only created two of them how come we have so many different races now? Did he create them all later for some reason? Why is it that some of you find evolution so hard to believe in when we all came from one-celled organisms before our own eyes (seamen)?
I have thought about that. Have you noticed that the hotter the enviroment the darker a persons skin will be. Well after they started spreading out over time their bodies began to darken with the enviroment that they were in. ( I forget the name of it, but there is a chemical that darkens your skin) And over time I guess this just became a gene that was passed down after so many generations and generations. And I do not see how something can be without an intelligent designer. You will look at a computer and would not think that it just was there and no one created it. So then why would you believe that about us.
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
actually its due to UV (and possibly diet ie. vitimin D rich foods)... and the chemical in question is Melanin.
And to be honest, we as a species lost melanin as we entered climates with less avalable UV. UV helps the body synthisize vitamin D, melanin darkens the skin and causes it to create less D. Thus a handy mutation to inherate was a lesser ammount of Melanin, to boost avalable Vitamin D production. Today to prevent our indoor loving societies from getting rickits due to lack of sun we put vitamin D in milk.

wa:do
 

MdmSzdWhtGuy

Well-Known Member
AtheistAJ said:
Nobody touched this thread in days because they can't provide an explanation to the last question above.

"Can't have something from nothing."
- "What about Jehovah?"
- "Well you gotta have something!"
- "You gotta have Jehovah to have something?"
- "Enough already, that's different! :banghead3 :banghead3 :banghead3 "
The way I heard it, it involved a chicken and an egg. Now how did that one go?

And re: the races thing. Genetecists have said it takes about 20,000 years for a group of whites to turn black, or vice versa. Environmental factors including the Melanonin, Vitamin D thing is responsible. Ligher skin makes it easier to absorb vitamins from the reduced sunlight, while darker skin allows a person to tolerate the heat and UV of an equatorial climate better.

The human genome project going on right now should shed some light on this subject. Discovery did a great documentary called The Real Story of Eve, or something similar to that. It was a search for the genetic Eve. They traced her back to Africa, tho I can't recall the date. Fascinating show tho. You can trace the lineage back through the mitochondrial DNA.

All humans of whatever race are the same species. There is a scientific explanation for the differences in races. Doesn't require anything supernatural, but it doesn't happen in the roughly 6,000 years since Adam, nor does it happen in the roughly 4,000 years since Noah. Watch the Discovery Channel, learn about the world we live in. It is a fabulous an fascinating place.

B.
 

Buttons*

Glass half Panda'd
I've always taken those stories as allegories. More as a metaphor for the psyche... but that's just me.
 

scitsofreaky

Active Member
Matt10:34 said:
The races come From the Babel Crisis in Genesis Chap 11
That is where different languages came from. Apparently God didn't want everybody to get along. But races and languages are apples and oranges.
 

Todd

Rajun Cajun
scitsofreaky said:
That is where different languages came from. Apparently God didn't want everybody to get along. But races and languages are apples and oranges.
I think this might explain better of what Matt10:34 was referring to.

"How did we get all of the different races on Earth if we are all descended from Adam and Noah and his family? Today's differing racial and cultural characteristics began at the separation of the world's population into different groups based upon language. This followed the affair at the Tower of Babel. Before this separation the one population shared the genetic traits of all humanity. In other words, they had a common gene pool. After the separation into groups, each group contained only a part of the former gene pool. This means that each group had lost some of the genetic information. As one generation followed another, genetic information continued to be lost in each group and in fact, is still being lost to this day. Certain traits in each isolated group became highlighted. For example, the decreasing tendency to produce melanin in the skin gave rise to the Caucasians, the white people of Europe. Other traits like hair type and soft tissue characteristics became unique to various groups that we refer to as "races" today. Interestingly, interracial marriages produce offspring that recapture some of that genetic information lost by each race represented by their parents."

Passage taken from:

http://www.creationmoments.com/radio/transcript.php?t=527
 

Matt10:34

Member
scitsofreaky said:
That is where different languages came from. Apparently God didn't want everybody to get along. But races and languages are apples and oranges.
The first created man, Adam, from whom all other humans are descended, was created with the best possible combination of genes — for skin "color," for example. A long time after Creation, a world-wide flood destroyed all humans except a man called Noah, his wife, his three sons, and their wives. This flood greatly changed the environment. Afterwards, God commanded the survivors to multiply and cover the Earth (Gen. 9:1). A few hundred years later, men chose to disobey God and to remain united in building a great city, with the Tower of Babel as the focal point of rebellious worship.
From Genesis 11, we understand that up to this time there was only one language. God judged the people’s disobedience by imposing different languages on man, so that they could not work together against God, and so that they were forced to scatter over the Earth as God intended. So all the "people groups" – "black" Africans, Indo-Europeans, Mongols, and others – have come into existence since that time.

Noah and his family were probably mid-brown, with genes for both dark and light skin, because a medium skin "color" would seem to be the most generally suitable (dark enough to protect against skin cancer, yet light enough to allow vitamin D production).
As all the factors for skin "color" were present in Adam and Eve, they would most likely have been mid-brown as well. In fact, most of the world’s population today is still mid-brown.
After the Flood, for the few centuries until Babel, there was only one language and one culture group. Thus, there were no barriers to marriage within this group. This would tend to keep the skin "color" of the population away from the extremes. Very
dark and very light skin would appear, of course, but people tending in either direction would be free to marry someone less dark or less light than themselves, ensuring that the average "color" stayed roughly the same.
The same would be true of other characteristics, not just skin "color." Under these sorts of circumstances, distinct differences in appearance will never emerge. This is true for animals as well as human populations, as every biologist knows. To obtain such separate lines, you would need to break a large breeding group into smaller groups and keep them separate, that is, not interbreeding any more.

The effects of Babel
This is exactly what happened at Babel. Once separate languages were imposed, there were instantaneous barriers. Not only would people tend not to marry someone they couldn’t understand, but entire groups which spoke the same language would have difficulty relating to and trusting those which did not. They would tend to move away or be forced away from each other, into different environments. This, of course, is what God intended. It is unlikely that each small group would carry the same broad range of skin "colors" as the original, larger group. So one group might have more dark genes, on average, while another might have more light genes. The same thing would happen toother characteristics: nose shape, eye shape, etc. And since they would interbreed only within their own language group, this tendency would no longer be averaged out as before. As these groups migrated away from Babel, they encountered new and different climate zones. This would also have affected the balance of inherited factors in the population, although the effects of the environment are nowhere near as important as the genetic mix with which each group began. As an example, let us look at people who moved to cold areas with little sunlight. In those areas, the dark-skinned members of any group would not be able to produce enough vitamin D, and thus would be less healthy and have fewer children. So, in time, the light-skinned members would predominate. If several different groups went to such an area, and if one group happened to be carrying few genes for lightness, this particular group could in time die out. This natural selection acts on the characteristics​
already present, and does not evolve new ones.
In summary, the dispersion at Babel, breaking a large interbreeding group into small, inbreeding groups, ensured that the resultant groups would have different mixes of genes for various physical features. By itself, this would ensure, in a short time, that there would be certain fixed differences in some of these groups, commonly called "races." In addition, the selection pressure of the environment would modify the existing combinations of genes, causing a tendency for characteristics to suit their environment.
There has been no simple-to-complex evolution of any genes, for the genes were present already. The dominant features of the various people groups result from different combinations of previously existing created genes, plus some minor changes in the direction of degeneration, resulting from mutations (accidental changes which can be inherited). The originally created (genetic) information has been either reshuffled or has degenerated, not been added to.
 

JerryL

Well-Known Member
The first created man, Adam, from whom all other humans are descended, was created with the best possible combination of genes — for skin "color," for example.
Which skin color is the best anyway?
 
Top