Evolution has been observed... right?

[firedragon]

That's not a script. That's my thoughts from years and years of seeing what I see in discussion forums on this topic. I am an observer of behaviors, and this is what I see.

Add to this, I believe in God. I used to be with those who embraced ignorance and fear in religion, afraid for any knowledge from outside itself to penetrate its boarded windows and let light in that may expose its own ignorance. All of that is a lack of faith, from my perspective and decades of personal experience.

Now, you can try to believe that this is all just me just parrotting some "script" if that makes you feel better, but that's just as errant as believing evolution isn't actually real. I can guarantee you, I go where few do, so I'm not even aware of any script I could be running that says what I'm saying.

So who attacked that person?

 

[Windwalker]

Nah. Please show " that the comment I responded to was in defence of a so called "religionists attack" like you just proposed? Go ahead."

Your original comment which spurred various posters responses, including my own, was this one:

Debunking religion has become religious missionary activity of atheists and evolution seems to be a thumping tool. Almost an obsession. indoctrination.

I countered by say that what you see is merely a responsive defense against religionists disinformation campaign to debunk science because it makes them uncomfortable with their beliefs.

That is my strongly held view, based upon years of firsthand experience within religious ranks like those, and from the other side having cast off those chains of fear and ignorance. I don't need to repeat "scripts". I am quite well able to articulate my own views and support them without needing to cheat pulling out some apologists cheat-sheet.

Otherwise what you did was a script. When people use evangelical type of scripts sometimes its not relevant. Unless you can show where he was attacked. Go ahead.

Done.

 

[firedragon]

Your original comment which spurred various posters responses, including my own, was this one:

That I said in response to a post.

So like you said, who attacked that person?

 

[Windwalker]

That I said in response to a post.

So like you said, who attacked that person?

I do not understand. You attacked with that comment following this person's comments:

Some people follow religions whose interpretations or doctrines require the earth to be extremely young. Otherwise, the internal logic of their beliefs breaks down. Without an Adam and Eve, for example, there would be no original sin, and there would be no need for Christ to redeem the sins we are born with and no need for his supposed death and resurrection. The theory of evolution directly refutes the possibility of an Adam and Eve. And so we see this cottage industry of apologetics to deny, miseducate, obfuscate, and selectively cherry pick information about evolution. One example is the "microevolution" and "macroevolution" distinction, which is meaningless to biologists because it's all the same evolution.

You responded saying this:

Debunking religion has become religious missionary activity of atheists and evolution seems to be a thumping tool. Almost an obsession. indoctrination.

Didn't you just attack the messengers, attempting to detract from the message, by calling them evangelists and the like? In fact, I believe the only reason anyone brings up this stuff as much as they do is because religion started that war by trying to say it's not true and shouldn't be believed in. But reasonable people with reasonable minds can see the truth and value of what the sciences show, rather than fearing them.

For instance, nobody but religious fundamentalists tried to inject the pseudoscience of Creationism into public classrooms because they were afraid of what Evolution says in their minds. What AlexanderG points out above is correct that, "we see this cottage industry of apologetics to deny, miseducate, obfuscate, and selectively cherry pick information about evolution." What you see in response is not more evangelicalism, but simply speaking truth against falsehood.

You can try to downplay all that, shooting the messengers, calling them evangelicals and whatnot, but that does not change the truth of what is being promoted by them in response to the promotion of disinformation. Think of it like those who promote the fact that the 2020 election was the most verified and secure election in American history, to counter those who spread falsehoods and lies about it because they want to be right against reality.

Perhaps I'm wrong in what I hearing you say. Can you correct me if so?

 

[firedragon]

I do not understand. You attacked with that comment following this person's comments:

I responded to his original comment. So who attacked him to bring up religion in that post?

Thats what you said. That it is a response to attack by "religionists". Go ahead and portray it pls.

 

[Windwalker]

I responded to his original comment. So who attacked him to bring up religion in that post?

It is that form of religion itself which attacks science. He should bring it up, because they are always actively trying to discredit science. I don't see bringing that up as an attack against religion, as not all religion has the same problem with science that certain factions of it do. It's a clear voice of rebuttal to discredit science-deniers, just like calling out the Holocaust Deniers who try to convince people that the claims of Holocaust survivors are lies.

I suppose you could call that a counter-attack, but I see it more as standing up for truth against error and lies against science.

Thats what you said. That it is a response to attack by "religionists". Go ahead and portray it pls.

Yours was the attack from what I could see. Not his comments.

Do you think the theory of evolution as explained by credible science denies the validity of your faith for you? If so, can you explain?

 

[firedragon]

It is that form of religion itself which attacks science.

So who attacked him in this thread prior? Pls show.

 

[SigurdReginson]

Yes some evolve very quickly, quick enough to observe change per generation. Some slower, like the pigmy sloth of Escudo de Veraguas evolving to its current state over 10,000 years and some don't evolve, the horseshoe crab and razor clam for example

Aye, convergent evolution!

If a body plan works for a specific niche, and there's nothing else that fills that void or exists to compete with it, chances are that mutations aren't going to change the body plan much. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

 

[Windwalker]

So who attacked him in this thread prior? Pls show.

Anti-science religionists have attacked science. All I saw this individual doing is the same thing I do, which is to educate people the facts as best I can against popularized falsehoods. If you saying someone being called out for misinformation is an attack upon them, well, that sounds like a cop out. "Why are you attacking me", says the child when the parent corrects him for trying to stick a fork into the wall outlet.

It's perfectly reasonable to make mention of this disinformation by religionists in a forum dedicated to a multitude of religious perspectives. I see the error of it too, and the worthwhileness to bring it up in this context. I myself normally would as well. Information other than propaganda is a worthwhile thing.

 

[firedragon]

Anti-science religionists have attacked science.

Which post in this thread prior to the one I responded to?

 

[Vee]

I think humanity is devolving, and we have been since Adam and Eve.

I think so too.

 

[firedragon]

Do you think the theory of evolution as explained by credible science denies the validity of your faith for you?

Not at all. How is that even relevant?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Pugs. Didn’t they use to have noses? Like, the old paintings of them, they have snouts! Full on noses, and they look happy too. Nowadays they look pathetic. We, humanity, observed that change, right? A change that affected a species as a whole. It was a result of our own buffoonery that doomed these poor fellas to pancake faces.
That’s evolution, right? We’ve seen it happen. Am I getting something wrong here? I’m no scientist.

Pugs, sheep, corn, Manx cats, soybeans, rice, apples, cattle, etc. are the result of artificial selection and breeding for traits that we find desirable. This man-made effort reflects or mimics natural evolution.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I disagree with this just because of my own views. I think humanity is devolving, and we have been since Adam and Eve.

I have no idea what you mean by devolving.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

You could say selective breeding is "forced" evolution.

I suppose you could say that. It is selecting and breeding for traits that have some value to us for food, fiber or fun (esthetics, wine, beer).

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I'm not going to speak for him.

But many people think evolution means getting better. So I guess devolving may mean getting worse. IDK really

It seems to be in terms of degeneration in some way. Culturally or morally I assume. Never mind that a comparison to life a few thousand or even a few hundred years ago shows a positive difference in many features of the quality of life for many more people. My chances of being killed before I turned 50 are thousands of times less likely today than 500 years ago.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I would say my views are most accurately mischaracterized as “Last Thursdayism”. I believe in YEC, but also believe that God simply placed already fully evolved species on an aged earth.

I don't believe that. They wouldn't be fully evolved in your scenario anyway, since evolution doesn't exist in it.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I suppose what I’m talking about is selective breeding. I have a very specific belief system (well we all do), but anarchism is central to what I believe. I believe the government is selectively breeding us to reduce our brain capacity, like pugs.

I don't believe that either.

 

[an anarchist]

I don't believe that. They wouldn't be fully evolved in your scenario anyway, since evolution doesn't exist in it.

The way I reason it I my mind is like this. Humans used to have longer lifespans, right? Then God capped it at 120 years, according to the Bible. I believe this is an example of negative evolution happening and being documented

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Much of that is Capitalism selling unhealthy foods that are tasty to the undisciplined consumer. From a conservative POV that is the freedom citizens have: to be ignorant and get fat.

If you are suggesting the government wants fat citizens, why? That just puts a huge burden on all of society, mostly in the healthcare system having to deal with the chronic consequences of obesity. All through the 20th century government has advocated for healthy habits. In recent decades this is more on the liberal side of government.

If we look at the fiasco in Flint, MI that was a result of republicans trying to get cheap water instead of good water. Many children and adults were poisoned. This isn;t deliberate poisoning, but it's incompetence on the part of conservative policy.

It is my belief that an advanced alien culture has taken over government and has enacted policies to fatten us up. We are food. And they are hungry. Are you familiar with "To Serve Man"? It's true.

Nah. We have grown complacent, over-indulged and lazy. One expression of that is leaning on foods high in fat and large in quantity. We're leaning on it, but not getting lean with it.