Evil

[74x12]

What are your thoughts/ Do you think is evil the corruption of something good which already exists?


What is evil?

Evil is not something that has an existence of its own; rather it is a corruption of that which already exists. EVIL IS THE ABSENCE OR PRIVATION OF SOMETHING GOOD. Rot, for example, can only exist as long as the tree exists. Tooth decay can only exist as long as the tooth exists. Rust on a car and a decaying carcass illustrate the same point. Evil exists as a corruption of something good; it is a privation and does not have essence by itself. Norman Geisler tells us, "Evil is like a wound in an arm or moth-holes in a garment. It exists only in another but not in itself."
Notes on the Problem of Evil, by Ron Rhodes

Yes, according to the scriptures all things are upheld by the Word of His power. So to go against the Word of God is what? It's going against the thing that holds you together. The very Word of creation itself. It is therefore to destroy; to undo creation.

 

[Ellen Brown]

It is different because God, as the Creator, is not just another human on the same level as a human bulling another of his fellow humans. God has no insecurity or need to bully others to lord it over others or feel superior, as human bullies do. God is Lord and is Superior . God sees everything and the motive of each person, in each situation and their actions and treatment of others, so that when He brings judgment it is always precisely fair, wise, appropriate for the situation, and meant to bring ultimate change and repentance from evil to good.

It would not be a surprise to me to find that we do not actually understand the purpose of Jesus (Isa PBUH). The Jews doubted that he was even here.

Perhaps he was here for God's benefit, to perhaps establish a closer connection to the difficult to understand 'man'. John 5:30-47 is a whole sermon in itself and to me underlines the modern lack of understanding of God and of the Christ he sent:

I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.

33 Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.

34 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.

35 He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.

36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

41 I receive not honour from men.

42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.

43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.

47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

The 4th Surah of the Quran echoes many of the things that Jesus (Isa PBUH) said, but the shaitan has placed a wedge of lack of understanding and hatred between men, and that will remain until he returns.

 

[Jos]

I don't think God's idea or "perfect" was to create robots. They were created good with the option to obey (good) or disobey (evil)...

"The original creation was "very good" (Gen. 1:31). There was no sin, no evil, and no death. Yet today, the world is permeated with sin, evil, and death. What brought it about? Scripture indicates that the turn downward came the moment Adam and Eve used their God-given free wills and volitionally chose to disobey God (Gen. 3).


Some people wonder why God couldn't have created man in such a way that he would never sin, thus avoiding evil altogether. The fact is, such a scenario would mean that man is no longer truly man. He would no longer have the capacity to make choices and to freely love. This scenario would require that God create robots who act only in programmed ways -- like one of those chatty dolls where you pull a string on its back and it says, "I love you."[8] Paul Little notes that with such a doll "there would never be any hot words, never any conflict, never anything said or done that would make you sad! But who would want that? There would never be any love, either. Love is voluntary. God could have made us like robots, but we would have ceased to be men. God apparently thought it worth the risk of creating us as we are." [9]


Love cannot be programmed; it must be freely expressed. God wanted Adam and all humanity to show love by freely choosing obedience. That is why God gave Adam and all other human beings a free will. Geisler is correct in saying that "forced love is rape; and God is not a divine rapist. He will not do anything to coerce their decision." [10] A FREE choice, however, leaves the possibility of a WRONG choice. As J. B. Phillips put it, "Evil is inherent in the risky gift of free will." [11]


We may conclude, then, that God's plan had the POTENTIAL for evil when He bestowed upon man the freedom of choice, but the ACTUAL ORIGIN of evil came as a result of man who directed his will away from God and toward his own selfish desires. "Whereas God created the FACT of freedom, man performs the ACTS of freedom. God made evil POSSIBLE; creatures make it ACTUAL." [17] Ever since Adam and Eve made evil ACTUAL on that first occasion in the Garden of Eden, a sin nature has been passed on to every man and woman (Rom. 5:12; 1 Cor. 15:22), and it is out of the sin nature that we today continue to use our free wills to make evil ACTUAL (Mark 7:20-23).:
Notes on the Problem of Evil, by Ron Rhodes

At the end of the day, God is perfectly good and cannot do evil yet has free will and you don't consider that to be a bad thing so He could have created humans the same way and you did acknowledge that He created humans imperfect and if that's the case then He has Himself to blame if He's upset that humans sin.

 

[InChrist]

At the end of the day, God is perfectly good and cannot do evil yet has free will and you don't consider that to be a bad thing so He could have created humans the same way and you did acknowledge that He created humans imperfect and if that's the case then He has Himself to blame if He's upset that humans sin.

There is only one God. God created humans which were good, but not perfect because creatures less than God Himself by definition would be less than perfect. Nevertheless, God gave each person choice between right and wrong and the person is accountable for those choices/actions. I think it's not as much God is upset over the fact that humans sin and do wrong, as much as the way humans continually choose to keep on sinning and refuse the opportunity to be changed and saved.

 

[EtuMalku]

Have you studied "most religions" or are you making a sweeping statement based on a study of one or two? If you have not done the studying - don't generalize

Indeed I have, otherwise I wouldn't make such a statement.

 

[EtuMalku]

So, if there is a Creator and this Creator created humans like you or me, what do you think we were created for and/or how are we to know?

That's a lot of 'ifs' . . . lol
There is no creator, you've been duped by the collective Will of Religion. And that I find Evil.

 

[Jos]

There is only one God. God created humans which were good, but not perfect because creatures

If humans were created good, then they wouldn't have sinned. Why didn't He created them perfect? Wasn't Satan created perfect? And aren't Christians gonna be perfected or made perfect in the future anyway in heaven? So what's this big deal about God not creating humans perfect when they're gonna be made perfect in the future anyway?

Nevertheless, God gave each person choice between right and wrong and the person is accountable for those choices/actions.

Why not create us perfectly good yet having free will like Himself? I don't understand why that's such a bad thing. Is it really worth it to allow humans to be able to kill and do other horrible things to each other rather than creating them perfectly good with free will?

I think it's not as much God is upset over the fact that humans sin and do wrong, as much as the way humans continually choose to keep on sinning and refuse the opportunity to be changed and saved.

Doesn't sin hurt God and isn't "refusing to be changed or saved" a sin and a wrong thing to do? Doesn't sin cause separation from God? If so then yes, He would get upset when humans sin and do wrong.

 

[pearl]

What are your thoughts/ Do you think is evil the corruption of something good which already exists?

Evil is a spinoff of life, without which it cannot exist.

 

[metis]

Evil is a spinoff of life, without which it cannot exist.

And also a spin-off of our "free will", imo.

 

[Spartan]

"Whenever a person raises the problem of evil, they are also positing the existence of good. When you say something is evil you assume something is good. If you assume there’s such a thing as good, you assume there’s such a thing as a moral law on the basis of which to differentiate between good and evil. If you assume there’s such a thing as a moral law, you must posit a moral law giver, because if there’s not a moral law giver, there’s no moral law. If there’s no moral law, there’s no good. If there’s no good, there’s no evil. So what is their question?" - Ravi Zacharias

Free will. That’s another answer to the ‘why’ of evil. God created men and angels with free will, to do good or evil, so they can be free moral agents. This is for a limited time, until the final Judgment, or until God levies judgment on men or nations. God gave this free will because there is no true love without freedom to choose either God of Satan. He did this to allow men and angels to operate on their own accords – to test God’s ways, and see if their ways are better, so that in the end there can be a final comparison and determination about whose way was better. We actually see an illustration of this in the 1st and 2nd chapters of the Book of Job – God allowing Satan to challenge his ways.

 

[EtuMalku]

Free will. That’s another answer to the ‘why’ of evil. God created men and angels with free will, to do good or evil, so they can be free moral agents. This is for a limited time, until the final Judgment, or until God levies judgment on men or nations. God gave this free will because there is no true love without freedom to choose either God of Satan. He did this to allow men and angels to operate on their own accords – to test God’s ways, and see if their ways are better, so that in the end there can be a final comparison and determination about whose way was better. We actually see an illustration of this in the 1st and 2nd chapters of the Book of Job – God allowing Satan to challenge his ways.

Free Will . . . another illusion.

There’s No Such Thing as Free Will

 

[Spartan]

Then why does the god of the bible say that he creates evil? He is corrupting his own perfection, then?

Reference: Isaiah 45:7

I researched that once, and one of the alternative words in Strong's Concordance for evil (if I recall correctly) was 'calamity'.

God designed blessings and curses (note Deuteronomy chapter 28), as well as sowing and reaping, etc. - polar opposites. Those were designed to deal with man's free will choices to do good or evil. If men do good they are normally blessed, but if they do evil then they will reap evil. And if men reap evil, it's not necessarily God just being mean. Suffering the consequences of evil acts can be very humbling to an individual, and even lead that individual to repentance and salvation. That's the cycle that we see in the Book of Judges. When Israel did evil, they were punished. Then, after a time of suffering, they repented and called out to God for deliverance, and God sent them deliverers. So that's what Isaiah 45:7 was really talking about when it said that God created evil.

 

[Spartan]

Free Will . . . another illusion.

There’s No Such Thing as Free Will

Sure there is. You can either receive Christ or CHOOSE not to receive him. It's your free will choice. Does God know in advance what you decide? Sure. But foreknowledge isn't determinism. God just knows, that's all. He knows your choices but he doesn't determine them.

 

[pearl]

spin-off of our "free will", imo.

Yes, referring to moral evil which is the free, deliberate, and unjustified intention/action of inflicting evil on self or other.

 

[ManSinha]

Indeed I have, otherwise I wouldn't make such a statement.

Do you know the range of freedom allowed in the east asian religions? What is your issue with those?

 

[Jos]

Sure there is. You can either receive Christ or CHOOSE not to receive him. It's your free will choice. Does God know in advance what you decide? Sure. But foreknowledge isn't determinism. God just knows, that's all. He knows your choices but he doesn't determine them.

Yet God has intervened and suspended free will before in order to stop evil from occurring.

 

[InChrist]

If humans were created good, then they wouldn't have sinned. Why didn't He created them perfect? Wasn't Satan created perfect? And aren't Christians gonna be perfected or made perfect in the future anyway in heaven? So what's this big deal about God not creating humans perfect when they're gonna be made perfect in the future anyway?

Why not create us perfectly good yet having free will like Himself? I don't understand why that's such a bad thing. Is it really worth it to allow humans to be able to kill and do other horrible things to each other rather than creating them perfectly good with free will?

Doesn't sin hurt God and isn't "refusing to be changed or saved" a sin and a wrong thing to do? Doesn't sin cause separation from God? If so then yes, He would get upset when humans sin and do wrong.

I believe allowing the freedom of choice means that the option to choose wrong exists, therefore the possibility of moral evil. Satan is an excellent example of this,as he was created a beautiful angel in a perfect environment, yet iniquity arose from within himself, his own mind and thoughts. He chose to go against the goodness of God. Yes, the scriptures state that believers will reach final perfection in heaven, but again that is a choice the believer makes and desires. The scriptures state that God is Love and just as a true love relationship cannot be one-sided or forced, I don't believe a true goodness can be forced, but must be freely chosen and accepted. And yes, I would say God is upset when people choose sin and separation from Him because we were created to exist in an eternal loving relationship with Him.

 

[InChrist]

Evil is a spinoff of life, without which it cannot exist.

What exactly do you mean? Could you elaborate a little?

 

[EtuMalku]

Do you know the range of freedom allowed in the east asian religions? What is your issue with those?

I'm familiar with most of them, what's your point?

 

[InChrist]

That's a lot of 'ifs' . . . lol
There is no creator, you've been duped by the collective Will of Religion. And that I find Evil.

I only included the "ifs" for the sake of those such as yourself who don't know God and the reality of the eternal just beyond our physical sight. Religion is not real, but I the Creator is right there for anyone to find.