Evil

[InChrist]

I find most religions to be evil in this sense. Imposing your Will on another (even a god's will) I would consider a true Evil.

Well, suppose it is not so much a matter of imposing, but rather that the one created in the first place was created with the purpose to exist in relationship with God and that being in God's will was the only place of ultimate joy, fulfillment, freedom, and love?

 

[Jumi]

Most evil is hurting people while knowing it's wrong or dehumanising others to promote your own groups.

 

[Jumi]

Isaiah 45:7 KJV

Happy birthday!

 

[EtuMalku]

Well, suppose it is not so much a matter of imposing, but rather that the one created in the first place was created with the purpose to exist in relationship with God and that being in God's will was the only place of ultimate joy, fulfillment, freedom, and love?

I guess if you try hard enough you can come up with some sort of workaround . . . Christian Apologetics has been succesfully doing this for decades.

 

[RESOLUTION]

What are your thoughts/ Do you think is evil the corruption of something good which already exists?


What is evil?

Evil is not something that has an existence of its own; rather it is a corruption of that which already exists. EVIL IS THE ABSENCE OR PRIVATION OF SOMETHING GOOD. Rot, for example, can only exist as long as the tree exists. Tooth decay can only exist as long as the tooth exists. Rust on a car and a decaying carcass illustrate the same point. Evil exists as a corruption of something good; it is a privation and does not have essence by itself. Norman Geisler tells us, "Evil is like a wound in an arm or moth-holes in a garment. It exists only in another but not in itself."
Notes on the Problem of Evil, by Ron Rhodes

But the fact a tooth can decay does it make the tooth evil or just not perfect?

I believe something created which looks perfect can be shown to be lacking perfection in that it can turn rotten.
As everything decays eventually then evil is more an action rather than a creation.

Adam and Eve. innocent and perfect would live for ever. Having been told not what to do. Being able to eat of every tree but one and that included being able to eat from the tree of life, they chose to disobey and so die by eating that one fruit.

So created perfect they were still able to do evil and sin by disobeying God because Eve thought God who have given them all the good things was holding back on making them like him.

Evil can take many forms whether it be hurting others or being disloyal to those who look out for us, Satan would be a perfect example of evil. He lies and he leads people from truth but even those who belong to him he has no love or loyalty to. He is taking them to hell and he does not care.. He would never give his life for another. Evil is in our own prospective but it exits independently of us and it is seen when we decide to do things which harm others and has many unfounded excuses to hide behind,.

Look at all the really acts we have seen in our life times then ask yourself WHY>?

 

[ChristineM]

Happy birthday!

Thank you

 

[Jos]

So created perfect they were still able to do evil and sin by disobeying God because Eve thought God who have given them all the good things was holding back on making them like him

They weren't created perfect... if they were created perfect, they wouldn't have sinned.

 

[syo]

What is evil?

sickness, evil means something is WRONG

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I would define "evil" as that which is detrimental to some form of life and is carried out by a conscious agent with malicious intent. All of the parts of that definition are important, I feel. The idea of "absence of good" doesn't fit - because a neutral situation in which nothing decidedly "good" is happening is not "evil."

"Tooth decay" is not "evil." There is no intent to cause your teeth harm - there are only chemical agents reacting how they must necessarily react, and biological agents doing what they need to to survive.

Rust on a car is corrosion of the metals - the atoms/molecules of the substance ending up in more stable molecular configurations as part of a completely natural process that occurs everywhere in the universe where conditions support it. Again, no evil here as there is no intent to destroy your car, and even in your example, who says the object we label a "car" is "good" to start with?

There are great many things that people try and label "evil" that simply aren't, because there is no malicious intent. Even something like a parasite is only acting in accordance with its nature, and doing what needs done to survive. How can that be considered "evil?"

 

[InChrist]

I guess if you try hard enough you can come up with some sort of workaround . . . Christian Apologetics has been succesfully doing this for decades.

So, if there is a Creator and this Creator created humans like you or me, what do you think we were created for and/or how are we to know?

 

[InChrist]

But the fact a tooth can decay does it make the tooth evil or just not perfect?

I believe something created which looks perfect can be shown to be lacking perfection in that it can turn rotten.
As everything decays eventually then evil is more an action rather than a creation.

Adam and Eve. innocent and perfect would live for ever. Having been told not what to do. Being able to eat of every tree but one and that included being able to eat from the tree of life, they chose to disobey and so die by eating that one fruit.

So created perfect they were still able to do evil and sin by disobeying God because Eve thought God who have given them all the good things was holding back on making them like him.

Evil can take many forms whether it be hurting others or being disloyal to those who look out for us, Satan would be a perfect example of evil. He lies and he leads people from truth but even those who belong to him he has no love or loyalty to. He is taking them to hell and he does not care.. He would never give his life for another. Evil is in our own prospective but it exits independently of us and it is seen when we decide to do things which harm others and has many unfounded excuses to hide behind,.

Look at all the really acts we have seen in our life times then ask yourself WHY>?

i'd say the reason is because humans choose harmful, destructive behavior which is outside of God's perfect will and love resutlting in evil.

 

[InChrist]

They weren't created perfect... if they were created perfect, they wouldn't have sinned.

I don't think God's idea or "perfect" was to create robots. They were created good with the option to obey (good) or disobey (evil)...

"The original creation was "very good" (Gen. 1:31). There was no sin, no evil, and no death. Yet today, the world is permeated with sin, evil, and death. What brought it about? Scripture indicates that the turn downward came the moment Adam and Eve used their God-given free wills and volitionally chose to disobey God (Gen. 3).


Some people wonder why God couldn't have created man in such a way that he would never sin, thus avoiding evil altogether. The fact is, such a scenario would mean that man is no longer truly man. He would no longer have the capacity to make choices and to freely love. This scenario would require that God create robots who act only in programmed ways -- like one of those chatty dolls where you pull a string on its back and it says, "I love you."[8] Paul Little notes that with such a doll "there would never be any hot words, never any conflict, never anything said or done that would make you sad! But who would want that? There would never be any love, either. Love is voluntary. God could have made us like robots, but we would have ceased to be men. God apparently thought it worth the risk of creating us as we are." [9]


Love cannot be programmed; it must be freely expressed. God wanted Adam and all humanity to show love by freely choosing obedience. That is why God gave Adam and all other human beings a free will. Geisler is correct in saying that "forced love is rape; and God is not a divine rapist. He will not do anything to coerce their decision." [10] A FREE choice, however, leaves the possibility of a WRONG choice. As J. B. Phillips put it, "Evil is inherent in the risky gift of free will." [11]


We may conclude, then, that God's plan had the POTENTIAL for evil when He bestowed upon man the freedom of choice, but the ACTUAL ORIGIN of evil came as a result of man who directed his will away from God and toward his own selfish desires. "Whereas God created the FACT of freedom, man performs the ACTS of freedom. God made evil POSSIBLE; creatures make it ACTUAL." [17] Ever since Adam and Eve made evil ACTUAL on that first occasion in the Garden of Eden, a sin nature has been passed on to every man and woman (Rom. 5:12; 1 Cor. 15:22), and it is out of the sin nature that we today continue to use our free wills to make evil ACTUAL (Mark 7:20-23).:
Notes on the Problem of Evil, by Ron Rhodes

 

[Ellen Brown]

So, if there is a Creator and this Creator created humans like you or me, what do you think we were created for and/or how are we to know?

I 'Think' there is a place in the Bible that says we were created to worship God.

 

[InChrist]

I would define "evil" as that which is detrimental to some form of life and is carried out by a conscious agent with malicious intent. All of the parts of that definition are important, I feel. The idea of "absence of good" doesn't fit - because a neutral situation in which nothing decidedly "good" is happening is not "evil."

"Tooth decay" is not "evil." There is no intent to cause your teeth harm - there are only chemical agents reacting how they must necessarily react, and biological agents doing what they need to to survive.

Rust on a car is corrosion of the metals - the atoms/molecules of the substance ending up in more stable molecular configurations as part of a completely natural process that occurs everywhere in the universe where conditions support it. Again, no evil here as there is no intent to destroy your car, and even in your example, who says the object we label a "car" is "good" to start with?

There are great many things that people try and label "evil" that simply aren't, because there is no malicious intent. Even something like a parasite is only acting in accordance with its nature, and doing what needs done to survive. How can that be considered "evil?"

I don't think tooth decay or rusty metal is evil. I believe these were only given in the article as physical examples of the spiritual reality when corruption of something good occurs due to sinful or evil intent.

 

[ManSinha]

saiah 45:7 is presenting a common theme of Scripture – that God brings disaster on those who continue in hard-hearted rebellion against Him."

How is that so different from those we describe as a bully?

 

[InChrist]

I 'Think' there is a place in the Bible that says we were created to worship God.

I don't know if there is one verse which states that, but that theme is throughout the scriptures and worship is the highest form of love. The Bible does say we are to ... love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. Matt. 22:37-38

 

[ManSinha]

I find most religions to be evil in this sense.

Have you studied "most religions" or are you making a sweeping statement based on a study of one or two? If you have not done the studying - don't generalize

 

[InChrist]

How is that so different from those we describe as a bully?

It is different because God, as the Creator, is not just another human on the same level as a human bulling another of his fellow humans. God has no insecurity or need to bully others to lord it over others or feel superior, as human bullies do. God is Lord and is Superior . God sees everything and the motive of each person, in each situation and their actions and treatment of others, so that when He brings judgment it is always precisely fair, wise, appropriate for the situation, and meant to bring ultimate change and repentance from evil to good.

 

[ManSinha]

It is different because God, as the Creator, is not just another human on the same level as a human bulling another of his fellow humans. God has no insecurity or need to bully others to lord it over others or feel superior, as human bullies do. God is Lord and is Superior . God sees everything and the motive of each person, in each situation and their actions and treatment of others, so that when He brings judgment it is always precisely fair, wise, appropriate for the situation, and meant to bring ultimate change and repentance from evil to good.

That is your perspective and of those like you who choose to believe. From my perspective and several of those like me that choose not to - that statement comes across exactly as a bully's would. "Worship me or ..... (fill in the blank with your favorite torture idea / phraseology)"

So, being raised in a tradition that gives bullies the bird - I am, in a metaphorical sense, prone to doing that to a "superior" being as well - like has been pointed out with homosexuality and eating so called unclean foods - those were different laws for a different time and have no relevance today whatsoever - I love a slice of pepperoni pizza as much as the next human particularly if there is a glass of coke to go with it. The sooner people who call themselves believers can accept this - the better it will be to try and convince others of the utility of faith in your god

As another posting indicated - church membership and affiliation is falling steadily - one report indicated that church leaders have to be "imported" from the Philippines, India and Africa because there are not enough native Americans willing to do the job. Also you may have heard when Pope Francis was installed - that he represented "the growing majority of the faith" - I do not think "Obey me or else" particularly when that "or else" is a vague reference to eternal torment, is going over well with people who are educated and have tasted freedom afforded by society.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I don't think tooth decay or rusty metal is evil. I believe these were only given in the article as physical examples of the spiritual reality when corruption of something good occurs due to sinful or evil intent.

I now see that you're right, and I completely missed it. I guess I'm too used to people calling obscure things that they just don't like "evil." I did think it was odd that the quote started out talking about evil and jumped straight into something like "tooth decay." Hopefully this isn't a sign that I am becoming too literal or something...