Evidence

[Subduction Zone]

I guess you did not bother to read the list of seven reasons. They are all owing to human factors.
It is completely irrelevant that God is omnipotent an omniscient because God is not going to "step in" and do what God has enjoined humans to do through Baha'u'llah. God gave man free will to choose so God is not going to override human free will and "make" people believe believe.

That is no excuse for God. Those are merely weak arguments that do not refute that if God is omniscient and omnipotent that his failures are his fault.

 

[PearlSeeker]

You said: If original words are lost then it makes no sense to send a Messenger only to a few people while the rest of the world remains in darkness. This is a very inefficient way of communication.

Were you suggesting that the HS be sent to everyone instead of just to one Messenger at a time?
What would that accomplish? Is everyone in the world going to take dictation and write the same 15,000 Tablets that Baha'u'llah wrote?

No. The meaning got lost in the process. Initially I said:

OK, Baha'is accept only Messengers as Manifestations. But the Bible is full of other forms of theophany. You say Holy Spirit is evidence only to the Messengers but the Bible says the Holy Spirit speaks (and is evidence) to all believers... This means message of Baha'i faith contradicts with message of the Bible. God must be a lousy communicator then.

 

[PearlSeeker]

I guess you did not bother to read the list of seven reasons. They are all owing to human factors.

I saw your list. Baha'is have to compete with the Bible which is widespread and most people regard it already as God's message. Isn't this God's fault? He left you alone against this giant corrupted message by Messengers he sent before your Messenger. Human power is not enough to amend this. It would take a miracle.

 

[Trailblazer]

That is no excuse for God. Those are merely weak arguments that do not refute that if God is omniscient and omnipotent that his failures are his fault.

It would only be God's fault if God was trying to accomplish something and failed.
That did not happen since God was not trying to make the Baha'i Faith have more adherents.

I love how atheists think God has only two attributes, omnipotence and omniscience.
That's really convenient but it is also false.

Some of God’s most important attributes: Unchanging, Impassable, Infinite, Omnipresent, Self-Existent, Self-Sufficient, and Immaterial, Sovereign, Eternal, Holy, All-Powerful, All-Knowing, All-Wise, Infallible, All-Good, All-Loving, Gracious, Merciful, Just, Righteous, Forgiving, Patient.

God needs no excuses because God cannot make any mistakes since God is infallible.
Only humans needs excuses because humans can make mistakes since humans are fallible.

 

[Trailblazer]

I saw your list. Baha'is have to compete with the Bible which is widespread and most people regard it already as God's message. Isn't this God's fault? He left you alone against this giant corrupted message by Messengers he sent before your Messenger. Human power is not enough to amend this. It would take a miracle.

How could it possibly be God's fault that most people believe in the Bible?
It might take a miracle from God to get people to put the Bible on the shelf were it belongs and recognize Baha'u'llah, but Baha'u'llah has promised us that day will come.

“Warn and acquaint the people, O Servant, with the things We have sent down unto Thee, and let the fear of no one dismay Thee, and be Thou not of them that waver. The day is approaching when God will have exalted His Cause and magnified His testimony in the eyes of all who are in the heavens and all who are on the earth. Place, in all circumstances, Thy whole trust in Thy Lord, and fix Thy gaze upon Him, and turn away from all them that repudiate His truth. Let God, Thy Lord, be Thy sufficing succorer and helper. We have pledged Ourselves to secure Thy triumph upon earth and to exalt Our Cause above all men, though no king be found who would turn his face towards Thee.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 248-249

 

[Subduction Zone]

It would only be God's fault if God was trying to accomplish something and failed.
That did not happen since God was not trying to make the Baha'i Faith have more adherents.

I love how atheists think God has only two attributes, omnipotence and omniscience.
That's really convenient but it is also false.

Some of God’s most important attributes: Unchanging, Impassable, Infinite, Omnipresent, Self-Existent, Self-Sufficient, and Immaterial, Sovereign, Eternal, Holy, All-Powerful, All-Knowing, All-Wise, Infallible, All-Good, All-Loving, Gracious, Merciful, Just, Righteous, Forgiving, Patient.

God needs no excuses because God cannot make any mistakes since God is infallible.
Only humans needs excuses because humans can make mistakes since humans are fallible.

Sorry , but the Infallible is either a failed claim or it proves that your version of God is not the correct one. Your God is all to human and too fallible.

 

[Trailblazer]

Sorry , but the Infallible is either a failed claim or it proves that your version of God is not the correct one. Your God is all to human and too fallible.

You want God to have only the attributes that work to your advantage, omnipotence and omniscience...
Sorry but it doesn't work that way as God is a package deal. God is also Infallible...
Imagine an omnipotent God that can make mistakes and you will know why you are illogical.

 

[Subduction Zone]

How could it possibly be God's fault that most people believe in the Bible?
It might take a miracle from God to get people to put the Bible on the shelf were it belongs and recognize Baha'u'llah, but Baha'u'llah has promised us that day will come.

“Warn and acquaint the people, O Servant, with the things We have sent down unto Thee, and let the fear of no one dismay Thee, and be Thou not of them that waver. The day is approaching when God will have exalted His Cause and magnified His testimony in the eyes of all who are in the heavens and all who are on the earth. Place, in all circumstances, Thy whole trust in Thy Lord, and fix Thy gaze upon Him, and turn away from all them that repudiate His truth. Let God, Thy Lord, be Thy sufficing succorer and helper. We have pledged Ourselves to secure Thy triumph upon earth and to exalt Our Cause above all men, though no king be found who would turn his face towards Thee.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 248-249

These are supposedly "God's Messengers" and the message is continually messed up. People are supposedly God's creation so the imperfect beings made by God cannot be at fault. The fault goes back to the creator.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You want God to have only the attributes that work to your advantage, omnipotence and omniscience...
Sorry but it doesn't work that way as God is a package deal. God is also Infallible...
Imagine an omnipotent God that can make mistakes and you will know why you are illogical.

No, I am working with the traits that you claim that he has. You should be trying to reason logically. You do not seem to realize that you are thinking illogically since your version of God keeps failing.

 

[Trailblazer]

No, I am working with the traits that you claim that he has.

and ignoring the traits you don't want to admit He has, like infallibility.

 

[Subduction Zone]

and ignoring the traits you don't want to admit He has, like infallibility.

You appear to be confused. We were talking about your version of God. Not necessarily "GOD". Your version of God shows that it cannot be God due to the failings that I mentioned.

 

[CG Didymus]

If original words are lost then it makes no sense to send a Messenger only to a few people while the rest of the world remains in darkness. This is a very inefficient way of communication.

Of course, the Baha'i prophet wrote his own stuff. And Muhammad dictated what an angel was telling him? I guess? But with the NT and the Bible, Baha'is say that is the only evidence and truth we can know about God, but, since it was written by others, and not the messenger himself, it's not exactly right? Then that makes it even worse evidence then what the Baha'is are offering. And, on top of that, Baha'is say the Christian leaders misinterpreted it. Inefficient and inaccurate communication.

 

[Trailblazer]

You appear to be confused. We were talking about your version of God. Not necessarily "GOD". Your version of God shows that it cannot be God due to the failings that I mentioned.

You appear to be confused. I am talking about the one true God. He has no failings since He is infallible.
This is the God I believe in...

“Tear asunder, in My Name, the veils that have grievously blinded your vision, and, through the power born of your belief in the unity of God, scatter the idols of vain imitation. Enter, then, the holy paradise of the good-pleasure of the All-Merciful. Sanctify your souls from whatsoever is not of God, and taste ye the sweetness of rest within the pale of His vast and mighty Revelation, and beneath the shadow of His supreme and infallible authority. Suffer not yourselves to be wrapt in the dense veils of your selfish desires, inasmuch as I have perfected in every one of you My creation, so that the excellence of My handiwork may be fully revealed unto men.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 143

 

[CG Didymus]

Actually it is if one claims that God is omniscient. And it doubly is if he is omniscient and omnipotent.

And it is still inefficient. The Baha'i are depending on a disaster, apocalyptic trials and tribulations, to get people to turn to the Baha'i Faith.

 

[Trailblazer]

And it is still inefficient. The Baha'i are depending on a disaster, apocalyptic trials and tribulations, to get people to turn to the Baha'i Faith.

No, we are depending upon God.

“The day is approaching when God will have exalted His Cause and magnified His testimony in the eyes of all who are in the heavens and all who are on the earth.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 248

 

[Subduction Zone]

You appear to be confused. I am talking about the one true God. He has no failings since He is infallible.
This is the God I believe in...

“Tear asunder, in My Name, the veils that have grievously blinded your vision, and, through the power born of your belief in the unity of God, scatter the idols of vain imitation. Enter, then, the holy paradise of the good-pleasure of the All-Merciful. Sanctify your souls from whatsoever is not of God, and taste ye the sweetness of rest within the pale of His vast and mighty Revelation, and beneath the shadow of His supreme and infallible authority. Suffer not yourselves to be wrapt in the dense veils of your selfish desires, inasmuch as I have perfected in every one of you My creation, so that the excellence of My handiwork may be fully revealed unto men.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 143

You contradicted yourself again. You claim to be talking about God but you keep going back to the failed god of the Baha'i faith. Perhaps we need a different name for that one. I like "Jimbo". Nah, maybe not. It might be seen as disrespectful. What name should we call your god?

 

[Subduction Zone]

And it is still inefficient. The Baha'i are depending on a disaster, apocalyptic trials and tribulations, to get people to turn to the Baha'i Faith.

Which a God that is omniscient, omnipotent, and now infallible would not need to do.

 

[Trailblazer]

You contradicted yourself again. You claim to be talking about God but you keep going back to the failed god of the Baha'i faith. Perhaps we need a different name for that one. I like "Jimbo". Nah, maybe not. It might be seen as disrespectful. What name should we call your god?

My God is the successful God who sent Baha'u'llah and all the other Messengers.
God never fails, only humans fail.

 

[PearlSeeker]

How could it possibly be God's fault that most people believe in the Bible?
It might take a miracle from God to get people to put the Bible on the shelf were it belongs and recognize Baha'u'llah, but Baha'u'llah has promised us that day will come.

“Warn and acquaint the people, O Servant, with the things We have sent down unto Thee, and let the fear of no one dismay Thee, and be Thou not of them that waver. The day is approaching when God will have exalted His Cause and magnified His testimony in the eyes of all who are in the heavens and all who are on the earth. Place, in all circumstances, Thy whole trust in Thy Lord, and fix Thy gaze upon Him, and turn away from all them that repudiate His truth. Let God, Thy Lord, be Thy sufficing succorer and helper. We have pledged Ourselves to secure Thy triumph upon earth and to exalt Our Cause above all men, though no king be found who would turn his face towards Thee.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 248-249

For now God is putting off the big fire with a drop of water. This is sending a new Messenger when previous message got distorted and spread around the globe. Everything else is just a promise. If it was possible to "magnify his testimony" he would have done it already. It seems God is not at all able to successfully transmit his message.

 

[Witches_Element]

Thanks for your concerns. In regards to the evidence of God I can provide eye witness testimony of what happened to me when I died as proof of His existence. In my testimony I'm going to cross examine myself in a hostile way to provide proof my death experience was not the result of wishful thinking I could keep living even though I was dying on that faithful day.

Ok, so as I lay dying 60 miles from Corpus Christi highway, my last thought was not of fear, it was of anger and relief. My last thought was goodbye cruel world I can't wait to blink out of existence to erase this horrible experience of life behind. You see I'm a good person that had a rough life so I was glad to die! People can't say I had a subconscious wish to live because I didn't want to live anymore at the time. So the argument of me having some sick fantasy of secretly wanting to live so my subconscious mind had to hallucinate a heavenly place would not apply to me. In reality, my subconscious fantasy would have been to cease to exist and that is important to know how my frame of mind would counter any wish to continue on after I die.

I was so happy I died but a strange thing happened. I was still able to think and have a consciousness! I was no longer in pain and I had such peace enter my soul it was amazing, and then, more bizarre things started happening to me again! I was not only having a consciousness, I started to have a super consciousness and suddenly I realized I was at 2 different places at the same time! I am not a mathematician but what happened to me was that I was transforming into 2 things. A recently deceased person from the living world and a spiritual entity from the supernatural world in the same way conjoined particles of entangled photons of light are able to communicate with each other regardless of distance that separates them.

Please bear in mind my death occured in 1986 and I had no ideal how Quantum physics can explain my 2 states of matter in a super position in a random field of no grid points to measure by.

I'm sorry for using such technical terms, but I'm offering this very detailed and technical experience I had as proof of my travel to a place I believe was Heaven. In all honesty I'm not smart enough or creative enough to come up with such a detailed or elaborate experience to dream up so I believe that everything that happened to me on that day was real!

While I was there I was also shown a unified Law that harmonizes the micro and macro verse that Einstein could not solve. The reason photon particles of (A)(B) can have instant communication regardless of the distance that separates them is that they are conjoined at different dimensions that pass through our dimension by a point of singularity. Because higher dimensions are infinitely small, space and time does not exist in them that is why instant communication and travel is possible when using the subspace of a higher dimension in reference to our space/time plane of existence.

I have very simple graphs to show how a 3 dimensional object can wrap around a 2 dimensional one to bypass the speed of light limit Einstein imposed in his mathematical equations regarding general relativity. I am offering this explanation as exhibit A as further proof of my travel to Heaven.

Well in essence I became a riddle as I traveled to Heaven:

I was here.
I was there.
I was everywhere and nowhere Simultaneously in a place that does not exist!

I was here and there from quantum entanglement that connected my physical body to my spiritual one, I moved from life to death in an instant and for a brief moment I was alive and dead at the same time (look up Schrödinger's cat paradox)

In this state of mind I briefly felt the presence of millions of souls of people that died and stayed near the Earth realm of purgatory. These poor people were so obsessed with the living they either didn't notice the light or were afraid of it because people that pass through this light never come back!

I didn't stay with them for long even though time does not exist in the spiritual realm, but I began to transform into something else! I changed from particle matter to wave form and in this duality state of being I traveled a great distance instantaneously. It was incredible, I felt the entire universe around me and for a moment I became the entire universe too! This was the first time in my life when I finally understood how everyone and everything is connected to each other and it was beautiful!

I traveled so far and so fast I lost my bearings! Was I up or down? Maybe I was traveling sideways and then I wondered what was I and when was I, because time did not exist there. I also want to mention that at no time during my death experience was I ever afraid! I was having too much fun and was in awe and wonder what would happen next!

Well after my travel ended it felt like I changed back from wave form to particle matter again but I couldn't see anything. I was blind, but the amazing thing was that I didn't need my eyes to see anymore because it felt like I evolved into a higher life form and it was amazing!!!

Suddenly my new sight allowed me to see that I was on a stage near a foyer entrance to a place I assumed was Heaven. At that time I suddenly became surrounded by 12 angels of 6 feminine and 6 masculine beautiful souls I considered family, because they felt like family to me. I want to make a note that these Angels represented the 12 tribes of Earth, but to this day, I still don't know what that means, lol!!!

They came to me with such unconditional and unbelievable love I never seen before in my entire life and it overwhelmed me with tears of gratitude of how kind they were. I was no one special but they made me feel like I was and it melted my heart! I finally understood what true love meant and we hugged each other for 3 billion years without ever letting go, it was amazing! I just want to note that 3 seconds or 3 billion years is the same time in that plane of existence and that is what makes it so amazing, anyway:

There was a strange thing I noticed about my new Angel family. We weren't talking in English or any other language. Their language seemed to be binary numbers since mathematics is a universal language everyone understands and after I understood the process of communicating, their mathematical language sounded like perfect English to me wow! I'm not a linguistic person in life, but in that amazing place, I was!

After billions of years of being with them they suddenly let go of me and withdrew from my presence which caught me off guard, but I soon found out why they did that.

A great King was approaching their way and all of them bowed down to Him out of pure joy of seeing Him, it was amazing to see royal subjects bow down, not because they had to, but because they wanted to out of respect for this incredible King.

Oh I was so happy for my Angel family to see such perfection come their way, but imagine my surprise when this great King came directly to me and came within an inch to my face. I felt like I didn't deserve to see Him but He was so happy to see me even though He was concerned!

He had such a kind and loving personality and it was so enduring! He laughed when He saw me but not in a mocking way, He was just glad to see me and He spoke. "Your not supposed to be here, I have to take you back to Earth, it's not your time to be here yet my child." He noticed my concern and said that it was ok if people reject Him because He loves them with all His heart. His only request to me was that when I return to Earth let the people know of His love for me and His love for people is never ending. It was so amazing because I wasn't commanded to save the world, his request was a beautiful modest one to give people hope and comfort in knowing that people have a home to come to when they pass away, from a God that loves them dearly!

When He brought me back to our universe he gently carried me back to our galaxy, then to our solar system and finally Earth. It was such a peaceful ride back to life and so organized from the Quantum mess I had to endure to get to Heaven.

When we neared Earth I began to feel the atmosphere and the need to breathe again! I began to hear faint voices from 3 frantic nurses from a distance that were working on me saying "I Can't Feel A Pulse, She No Pulse! Oh wait a minute, I feel a pulse now, she is returning back to us!

Well that is my incredible story of the time I died and met God. I hope my frame of mind, the complex Quantum equations and very specific details of the Angles and King I met give undoubted proof that God exists, thanks for allowing me to share my story with you!