rosends
Well-Known Member
So I bring up elements of the book with which you are unfamiliar and I should read more?
Here
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=9463&st=&pgnum=23
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Evidence that Jesus was the Messiah
- Thread starter jewscout
- Start date
Here
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=9463&st=&pgnum=23
RabbiO
הרב יונה בן זכריה
Why would you deny that we know one another, considering the number of times we "crossed swords" on another forum? Especially since I haven't changed my screen name or avatar?
Akivah
Well-Known Member
What were his other online names?
RabbiO
הרב יונה בן זכריה
The name he used on multiple forums in the past was Ben Masada.
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
Go ahead Tumah, if this makes you happy, that's all that counts. My contribution to your happiness is to read your verbal juggling of nonsense.
Tumah
Veteran Member
While I have been fairly clear and consistent in my attempt to turn you honest, you have been either not directly addressing my comments or throwing out red herrings at every turn. Perhaps you are not clear on the appropriate way to use the phrase "verbal juggling".
Looks like you're right. A person claiming to be Jewish, from Israel, who is equally proficient in Tanach as he is in the NT but not knowledgeable in the Talmud at all. Looks like a match.
I guess we shouldn't be surprised that he creates multiple accounts. Silly things like rules and honesty are just not relevant to him.
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
Since when "I don't think so" means "I deny your assertion that we know one another? Besides, why is it so important? The point of our discussions is not personal but to enhance our knowledge of HaShem.
TrueBeliever37
Well-Known Member
According to the book of Daniel, the Messiah should have already come.
Daniel 2: Tells of the dream Nebuchadnezzar had of the image and how it related to things that would happen in the future. There would be 4 earthly kingdoms.
The Babylonian was the 1st. (Dan. 2: 37) The Medo-Persian was the 2nd. The Grecian would be the 3rd., and the Roman Empire was the 4th.
Daniel 2:44 - and in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom ... (Notice this is when the Messiah came in the NT preaching that the kingdom was at hand, during the Roman Empire) His death ushered in his Kingdom - a spiritual Kingdom - the Church. It has thrown many people off because they were expecting a natural kingdom to come.
also notice from Daniel 9:24-26 some of the things to happen during the 70 weeks of Daniel were the following:
Daniel 9:24 - to anoint the most holy.
Daniel 9:25 - to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be 7 weeks, and 62 weeks
Daniel 9:26 - after 62 weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself - also note the people of the prince (the prince here was Titus, the son of Vespasian the Emperor) that shall come would destroy the city and sanctuary (fulfilled at 70 AD). So, if the 70 weeks ended at 70 AD, the Messiah should have already come by then, and he did and he even warned of this destruction as in Matthew 24:1,2,15-16 for example.
Daniel 2: Tells of the dream Nebuchadnezzar had of the image and how it related to things that would happen in the future. There would be 4 earthly kingdoms.
The Babylonian was the 1st. (Dan. 2: 37) The Medo-Persian was the 2nd. The Grecian would be the 3rd., and the Roman Empire was the 4th.
Daniel 2:44 - and in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom ... (Notice this is when the Messiah came in the NT preaching that the kingdom was at hand, during the Roman Empire) His death ushered in his Kingdom - a spiritual Kingdom - the Church. It has thrown many people off because they were expecting a natural kingdom to come.
also notice from Daniel 9:24-26 some of the things to happen during the 70 weeks of Daniel were the following:
Daniel 9:24 - to anoint the most holy.
Daniel 9:25 - to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be 7 weeks, and 62 weeks
Daniel 9:26 - after 62 weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself - also note the people of the prince (the prince here was Titus, the son of Vespasian the Emperor) that shall come would destroy the city and sanctuary (fulfilled at 70 AD). So, if the 70 weeks ended at 70 AD, the Messiah should have already come by then, and he did and he even warned of this destruction as in Matthew 24:1,2,15-16 for example.
Tumah
Veteran Member
The correct way to phrase that is
According to the Christian interpretation and translation of the book of Daniel, the Messiah should have already come.
That would make it more accurate.
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
And the Messiah did come back from exile in Babylon according to Daniel 9:24. Ezra came ahead of them to prepare the Levites and the Temple for the coming of Everlasting Righteousness aka the Shechinah. And the 70weeks/years in Babylon ended in 549 BCE and not 70 ACE. In that case, 70 weeks equaled 70 years, not 490. (Jeremiah 29:10)
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TrueBeliever37
Well-Known Member
RabbiO
הרב יונה בן זכריה
Ben thinks he does.
Tumah
Veteran Member
He reflects his own beliefs. His response is not brought in any Jewish sources. As usual.
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
A token to remind other posters about Ben's views in the discussions on the Tanach or the NT for that matter; every one is advised to check his quotes which BTW frequently follow his posts whether from the Tanach or from the NT, before any one chooses to appeal to slandering him which is not a decent attitude as interfaith is concerned. BTW, to get personal one way or another must not be a desired thing to do.
TrueBeliever37
Well-Known Member
Tumah,
So do you believe the 70 weeks of Daniel has been fulfilled or that it is still in the future?
TrueBeliever37
Well-Known Member
Rabbio,
So in Judaism:
1. Isn't the Messiah supposed to be an individual?
2. Do you believe that there is a resurrection? If not, do you believe in heaven and hell?
3. If the fulfillment of the promise to David that of his seed he would always have a man to sit on the throne, was first fulfilled by Solomon, then who is on the throne now?
Please explain these questions from a Jewish perspective.
So in Judaism:
1. Isn't the Messiah supposed to be an individual?
2. Do you believe that there is a resurrection? If not, do you believe in heaven and hell?
3. If the fulfillment of the promise to David that of his seed he would always have a man to sit on the throne, was first fulfilled by Solomon, then who is on the throne now?
Please explain these questions from a Jewish perspective.
Tumah
Veteran Member
It was already fulfilled by the destruction of the Second Temple.
TrueBeliever37
Well-Known Member
Then why would you not believe that the Messiah should have come by now?
Tumah
Veteran Member
Because it has nothing to do with a messiah. At least not "the" messiah".
roger1440
I do stuff
The prophesies are vague, probably deliberately so there fulfillment wouldn’t be held to a narrow margin of interpretation. So to answer your question, maybe yes, maybe no. I hope I cleared that up for you, LOL.