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Evidence that God does not exist

MdmSzdWhtGuy

Well-Known Member
goju,

by that logic, why aren't you praying to Zeuss, Ra, Thor, Odin, Athena, Appolo, and every other God every known to man for fear of upsetting them?

B.
 

linwood

Well-Known Member
gojuwarrior1 said:
I would rather worship God, die and find out there is no God then to deny him and die and realize there is a God!
You better hope you`re worshipping the right god.

He/She is bound to be twice as mad to find that you`ve been worshipping a rival.

:)
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
As I said in another thread:

Victor said:
Using caricature to shut down discussion is but boring and ineffective in understanding our reasons for believing. Take it one at a time, starting with the pink cute unicorns.
Take pick and go with it. God knows you guys have tried....:sarcastic

~Victor
 

linwood

Well-Known Member
Victor said:
As I said in another thread:


Take pick and go with it. God knows you guys have tried....:sarcastic

~Victor
I`m sorry Victor but I don`t know who or what you`re refering to.

Who is using "caricature" and where?
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
linwood said:
I`m sorry Victor but I don`t know who or what you`re refering to.

Who is using "caricature" and where?
Nevermind, it would make no difference to you.
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
linwood said:
Yes, it is much easier when you don`t have to clarify let alone support an unbased assertion isn`t it?
Yeah that's it. Little do you know its right above your nose...:rolleyes:
 

linwood

Well-Known Member
Victor said:
Yeah that's it. Little do you know its right above your nose...:rolleyes:
I`m beginning to wonder if you ever post a statement where it`s intent is recognisable .

:tsk:
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
I just looked at the titlee of the thread again...."Evidence that God does not exist"........that is impossible. No one can have evidence for the non-existance of anything......start again?:biglaugh:
 

linwood

Well-Known Member
michel said:
I just looked at the titlee of the thread again...."Evidence that God does not exist"........that is impossible. No one can have evidence for the non-existance of anything......start again?:biglaugh:
It depends on your accepted level of evidence Michel.

For many an absence of evidence is evidence of absence.

When we fail to find evidence where we would expect to find evidence it is reasonable to disbelieve that which has no evidence.

I also know Abe is specifically speaking of the Abrahamic God as I know him from iidb.org
Considering the Bible outlines numerous places where one would expect to find evidence yet none has ever been found even though numerous believers have poured immense resources into looking for such evidence it is "evidence" enough for me to believe there is no god.
 

linwood

Well-Known Member
Fluffy said:
But that is not logical. It might be reasonable and practical but not logical.
Logic isn`t always "right" especially when premises are biased or incorrect.

It is entirely rational with the caveat Absence of evidence is evidence of absence" where we would expect to find evidence "

We all use this caveat everyday in our lives in order to do almost anything.
I find no reason to toss it out merely because we are speaking of God.

Example:

I disbelieve the Biblical Exodus because a diaspora of a large number of Israelites roaming around Egypt and the Sinai for 40 year would leave some archeological evidence somewhere in the areas that the Bible states they travelled.

I believe in evolution because no one has found a single mammal fossil in the precambrian layer.

I disbelieve demons because no credible evidence has ever been found for them.

We ALL use this standard for millions of things/beliefs/dieties/choices every single day but the majority of us give whatever god happens to be popular in our geographical area a "free pass" from this commonly used standard of evidence for reasons I can only guess at.

I don`t believe in god or unicorns or fairies or the boogyman because there should be some evidence somehwere of all these things if they exist yet there is not.

Therefore, they don`t exist as far as I`m concerned.

It is not I who am being inconsistent with my standards concerning this.
 

MdmSzdWhtGuy

Well-Known Member
On point to what Linwood speaks to, there is a dearth of evidence for the existence of (insert supernatural occurance of your choice, i.e. Unicorns, Leprechauns, etc. . . .) and because there is no evidence which favors the existence of such creatures, reasonable adults rarely go into detailed arguments about whether such creatures/phenomena exist.

However, when someone attempts to apply the same standard to the deity popular at any given time/geographic region, we are suddenly shouted down by those who claim that it is illogical to surmise that an absence of evidence is evidence of absence.

Why the differing standard? I think it goes back to Occam's Razor, and to a major cultural bias, and a deep feeling of need in the beleiver to beleive in the deity of their choice, in spite of there being (oftentimes) no more evidence for the god of their choice's existence than there is for the existence of wood nymphs, Santa, Easter Bunny, etc., etc., etc.

While the OP may have made a poor choice of words in naming this thread, his points are still valid. I agree with everyone who says that no evidence for the absence of an Abrahamic God has been presented. Just as there will never be any evidence of the absence of dragons, trolls, hobbits, etc. . . .

This, to me, is an endlessly fascinating subject, and one upon which there are, obviously, more than one school of thought. Beleivers are often going to beleive, in spite of what some will acknowledge is a lack of credible evidence in favor of their beleif. Non-beleivers are going to continue in their athiesm/agnosticism/skepticism, in spite of subjective stories of revelations, miracles, and the like brought to the fore by believers.

I sincerely doubt that this subject is one upon which, at any point in the near future, people on either side of the debate are going to just decide, hey, you guys on the other side have convinced me, and we all end up agreeing. It is in the nature of what we are debating that, barring God deciding to show up in all His glory in the middle of Central Park, we are never going to be able to prove the existence or non-existence of God.

God, if he exists, could make it absolutely known, to every individual on Earth, that He is real, that he cares about you, and that he has a plan for your eternal soul. If the God of the Bible is real and has the attributes ascribed to him by Judeo-Christian scholars, then there is literally nothing, other than His own whim stopping him from showing up and ending all such debates.

To date, He has not chosen to do so. For this, and many other reasons, I, and many others who are like minded are skeptical as to His existence at all. If you imagine that there is no supernatural father figure who is looking out for all of our well-being, then you could imagine a world full of disease, starvation, suffering, war, torture, ethnic/cultural/religious violence, where men are absolutely inhuman to one another. . . . and if one takes a look at this marble we all live on, then that is exactly what one finds.

There are myriads of other reasons I could go in to, and books have literally been written on this subject by a variety of authors, but there are many logical, valid reasons why a person would come to the conclusion that a) we can never know if there is a God - agnosticism or b) there is strong reason to beleive that there is in fact no God - athiesm. None of these reasons, however, are ever going to be "evidence" for the absence of God, as there can never be evidence for any absence of anything.

Think back to Carl Sagan's invisible dragon, which lives in his garage. You can never, ever ever ever provide any evidence that Mr. Sagan's dragon does not exist. You can, however, come to the conclusion, as he did, that a dragon who is unknown, and unknowable, ceases to matter; or you can come to the conclusion that it is not reasonable to expect his invisible dragon exists, as many of us do. And those who come to that conclusion about his invisible dragon, do not come to said conclusion because of any evidence showing the dragon doesn't exist. Instead we come to that conclusion based on the lack of evidence in favor of the proposition that the dragon exists.

B.
 

Buttercup

Veteran Member
I wish I had more time to post an articulate response....

But, I have to say in haste....there is no way you can prove that God DOES NOT exist. It is impossible to prove the non existence of God. And to be fair, I believe you will never be able to prove in a laboratory the existence of God. Belief in ANY God or Gods always relies on a modicum of faith...always will be that way too.
 

linwood

Well-Known Member
Buttercup said:
I wish I had more time to post an articulate response....

But, I have to say in haste....there is no way you can prove that God DOES NOT exist. It is impossible to prove the non existence of God. And to be fair, I believe you will never be able to prove in a laboratory the existence of God. Belief in ANY God or Gods always relies on a modicum of faith...always will be that way too.
Agreed but just know that no one will ever be able to "prove" that the Tooth Fairy doesn`t exist either.
So because I cannot prove the Tooth fairy doesn`t exist does this mean that I should believe in her?
What about the Cyclops? Mithra? Dionysis? Isis?
I can`t disprove any of them, should I believe they exist?

What is the evidentiary difference between them and God?
Why do you accept God but not Zeus?

:)
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
linwood said:
I`m beginning to wonder if you ever post a statement where it`s intent is recognisable .

:tsk:
Don't confuse my intent for your ignorance.

~Victor
 

linwood

Well-Known Member
Victor said:
Don't confuse my intent for your ignorance.

~Victor
I couldn`t possibly confuse your intent for anything considering you take great pains to obfuscate it so you won`t have to defend it.

Cowardice is what thats called where I`m from.

My ignorance exists because you fear exposing your intent.

Not my problem, my intent is clear and defensible.
 

Buttercup

Veteran Member
What is the evidentiary difference between them and God?
Why do you accept God but not Zeus?
:)
Belief in any diety requires a tad of faith...and then we each get to choose the story we like best. Christianity for me and for you???????:eek:

See you next week......looking forward to posting on this forum!
 
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