Evidence of the Non-Physical

[rational experiences]

Aren't you supposed to be in day-care?

I have a sick friend who does day care. And I live the same equal life you do. Your info should be the same as mine. How come it's not...
With other intentions not voiced on the forum!!!

 

[Truthseeker]

Indeed.

“The solidity of the classical vision of the world is nothing other than our own myopia. The certainties of classical physics are just probabilities. The well defined and solid picture of the world given by the old physics is an illusion.”
- Carlo Rovelli

I've taken Physics courses, and am interested in Physics, especially cosmology, relativity, and the puzzles of Quantum mechanics. I got a degree in Mathematics, and have a talent for Mathematics, and was good at Physics also since there is so much Mathematics in it. Your avatar is the accretion disk around a black hole, so it is obvious you share my interest.

 

[alypius]

What is your evidence of the existence of the non-physical?

Physical:
2a: having material existence : perceptible especially through the senses and subject to the laws of nature
everything physical is measurable by weight, motion, and resistance
— Thomas De Quincey
b: of or relating to material things

As a "materialist", evidence requires some physicality. If it is not physical, it is not usable to justify belief.

If evidence is defined as necessarily physical in character, then how could there be evidence of the non-physical?

 

[rational experiences]

Words used by physical human gives an unrealistic physical status.

We state a form of domed body keeps my life safe by physical observation only.

Clear and then blue with clouds etc.

Both forms constantly present. Yet spirits presence we said was by nothing.....space. Hence in reality to think why space nothing holds... it does not exist except by causes.

Physical we claim is constantly present until it goes away by change.

So spirit is stated non physical.

As we are physical to teach we use variations in definitions.

Why we said the heavens was a spirit.

As even the spirit form can go away.

So if mass went away it did so physically yet spiritually.

The teaching said by spirit gas burning.

So if a physical state and a spirit state can go away in burning don't apply burning.

A stated law in life. As two bodies can be removed in one cause.

Hence denoting either said two forms can be removed by the same cause.

We said humans are physically manifest yet of spirit due to high percentile water.

God is material mass. As we live by standing on a solid.

 

[Nakosis]

If evidence is defined as necessarily physical in character, then how could there be evidence of the non-physical?

That's how I define it. I'm curious about other options.

 

[Nakosis]

Smoke does not create fire.

Do chemicals create feelings, or do emotions cause chemicals to be released?

Similarly, you’re brain releases hear when you think. But presumably it’s the act of thinking that creates the heat, and not the other way round.

One thing I found interesting I hear a while ago it that if you force yourself to laugh, even when you are feeling down, you'll start feeling better. This is because you body response to the physical process of laughter. It releases chemicals which changes your mood.

So yes we can consciously cause the release of these chemicals but it's the chemicals themselves which change our mood.

 

[Nakosis]

So you mean, those who are not kind, loving, Forgiving, generous, have brain chemicals imbalance? And those who have these qualities have good brain chemical balance?

It's a little more complicated than that from my understanding. However, depression can usually be treated with various drugs which basically introduces chemicals into your system to alter your mood.

Generally I find I can control my moods somewhat. However I guess there are people who can't. Very difficult for them without help to get out of a depressed state.

It's not like I can consciously turn these chemical on and off, these are called neurotransmitters.
Physiology, Neurotransmitters - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

We have a lot of them which controls many different functions, our emotional is just one.
However, I am aware of things that can trigger the ones I um... like I guess.

We do this when we go watch movies. A scary movies releases the neurotransmitters which make us fearful. Happy movies put us in a good mood etc...
There are certain things we can physically do to trigger the release of different combinations of these chemicals. As we become more aware of what triggers what we start to gain a little more control over our mood.

 

[Nakosis]

Then, you just expressed the irrationality of man - emotions override sensibilities. The highest intellect, has the lowest rationality.

Well, IMO emotions are our biological feedback system. Not really the best type of feedback system, however sufficient enough for the species to survive.

Of course we like our feelings, but they also work to our detriment. I hope through intellect we can find ways to have our feedback system to work more with us than against us. I suspect religion was an attempt to walk down this road but like most things we attempt we screwed it up.

 

[stvdv]

I'll assume you believe your inner senses to be non-physical?

To me from a number of neuroscience articles and studies I've read, your "inner senses" are physical processes.

Outer senses: Hear, see etc.
With
Inner senses: Clairaudience, clairvoyance etc.

Clairvoyance: You close your eyes, yet you 'see'
('close': reduce eye-sense feeding: meditate)
Clairaudience: You close your ears, yet you 'hear'
('close': reduce ear-sense feeding: silence)

Solitude, Silence, Serenity are the key
(It's known that blind improve other senses)
(Similar, 'close' outer senses opens inner senses)
(Many animals have heightened inner senses)

Definition of clairaudience

: the power or faculty of hearing something not present to the ear but regarded as having objective reality

Clairvoyance is the ability to perceive by 'seeing'; clairaudience is the ability to perceive by 'hearing'; and claircognisance is the ability to perceive by 'knowing'

@stvdvRF

 

[lewisnotmiller]

God is sovereign, yes, but that doesn't mean that He desires certain or specific outcomes, as opposed to Him allowing us to learn from mistakes. Parents who intervene constantly on their children's actions, will create nothing but dependent and helpless offspring. A Parent must let children fall to some degree, in order to build them up.

I am a parent, and I agree that children must be allowed to fall.
The thing worth remembering with this analogy is that both a concerned parent trying to help his child grow, and an absent parent may both allow their child to fall. We can tell the difference between the two by looking not only at whether a child falling is a sign of bad parenting, but at their conduct over time.
A good father, for example, would surely be there to help support their child growing, to hold their hand when they're suffering illness, to tuck them in each night and help them learn the lessons of the day.

I am by no means a perfect father, but I'm present in my children's lives. So sure, I would let them fall in certain situations. But there are others where I would not.

Man's spirit transcends the flesh, and dictates his action more than his brain. The evidence is axiomatic.

I mean...you can make whatever statements you like, but they're opinionative. There is nothing self-evident about man's spirit transcending flesh in anything more than a metaphorical sense. Meanwhile, there are plenty of studies that can link changes in cognitive behavior to brain damage, for example.

Your understanding of psychology, this pseudo science, does not address the issue, or penetrate to the catalyst behind man's behaviour.

I would basically agree it's a pseudo-science. That elevates it to being more predictive of human behavior then demonology. But still, it's certainly not capable of answering all questions around cognition.

Jealousy, greed, avarice, lasciviousness, arrogance, hate, etc cannot be quantified or psycho-analyzed.

They can be psycho-analyzed. That you don't agree with those findings is a different thing entirely, but I can link you to plenty of research on the topic. However, I suspect that wouldn't be of interest, so I'll hold.

The spirit knows things that the flesh is unaware of.

I have no issues with people who believe such things, unless they insert them into (for example) medical practice.

 

[DNB]

Well, IMO emotions are our biological feedback system. Not really the best type of feedback system, however sufficient enough for the species to survive.

Of course we like our feelings, but they also work to our detriment. I hope through intellect we can find ways to have our feedback system to work more with us than against us. I suspect religion was an attempt to walk down this road but like most things we attempt we screwed it up.

Instincts are helpful, but wisdom and maturity is what causes one to grow as person beneficial to himself and others. One must resist their emotions and make an appeal to wisdom and righteousness - we are spiritual beings, not simply a bundle of nerve endings.

 

[DNB]

I am a parent, and I agree that children must be allowed to fall.
The thing worth remembering with this analogy is that both a concerned parent trying to help his child grow, and an absent parent may both allow their child to fall. We can tell the difference between the two by looking not only at whether a child falling is a sign of bad parenting, but at their conduct over time.
A good father, for example, would surely be there to help support their child growing, to hold their hand when they're suffering illness, to tuck them in each night and help them learn the lessons of the day.

I am by no means a perfect father, but I'm present in my children's lives. So sure, I would let them fall in certain situations. But there are others where I would not.



I mean...you can make whatever statements you like, but they're opinionative. There is nothing self-evident about man's spirit transcending flesh in anything more than a metaphorical sense. Meanwhile, there are plenty of studies that can link changes in cognitive behavior to brain damage, for example.



I would basically agree it's a pseudo-science. That elevates it to being more predictive of human behavior then demonology. But still, it's certainly not capable of answering all questions around cognition.



They can be psycho-analyzed. That you don't agree with those findings is a different thing entirely, but I can link you to plenty of research on the topic. However, I suspect that wouldn't be of interest, so I'll hold.



I have no issues with people who believe such things, unless they insert them into (for example) medical practice.

You're not seeing the big picture - man is evil to his own destruction. There is no rationale to justify such behaviour, for as I keep saying, even the animal kingdom does behave in such a deranged manner. You need to start thinking deeper, and not be so superficial in your understanding. Rape, murder, racism and bigotries, genocides, wars, exploitation, extortion, kidnapping, alcoholism, pornography, adultery, etc... are clear signs of depravity, and creatures who do not abide by the principles of nature.

No, I'm not interested in a secular point of view, the evidence precludes such options.

 

[Nakosis]

Instincts are helpful, but wisdom and maturity is what causes one to grow as person beneficial to himself and others. One must resist their emotions and make an appeal to wisdom and righteousness - we are spiritual beings, not simply a bundle of nerve endings.

Or, non-spiritual beings and the same applies.
Whether you consider us spiritual or non-spiritual beings nothing really changes. We all still have to get through life the best we can.

 

[DNB]

Or, non-spiritual beings and the same applies.
Whether you consider us spiritual or non-spiritual beings nothing really changes. We all still have to get through life the best we can.

But, wisdom is the means to that end - understanding the deeper and more important things in life, something that no other creature can appreciate or comprehend.

 

[Nakosis]

But, wisdom is the means to that end - understanding the deeper and more important things in life, something that no other creature can appreciate or comprehend.

Does it make a difference whether it is spiritual wisdom or material wisdom?

 

[DNB]

Does it make a difference whether it is spiritual wisdom or material wisdom?

Yes, of course, the latter expression is an oxymoron.

 

[alypius]

That's how I define it. I'm curious about other options.

What about accepting something which is evident upon reflection eg. the whole is greater that the part?

 

[Sheldon]

How do you measure the criteria and determine the evidence for abstract thought, emotion, idea, or belief?

Has any of that ever been evidenced to occur without a live functioning physical brain?

 

[Sheldon]

No, I'm not interested in a secular point of view, the evidence precludes such options.

What evidence?

 

[DNB]

What evidence?

The empirical evidence.