Evidence of Homo Sapiens on earth

[DavidFirth]

Except that the type of bone diseases that would lead to this type of deformity are relatively easy to spot. These fossils are NOT remains of diseased individuals (except for the first Neadnerthal, which actually had arthritis). if you want to claim otherwise, please tell which bone diseases you think they had and give evidence that they had such.

Some of them were certainly not *modern* humans. They were a different species, yes. But the same Genus and very closely related to us.

However, the assumption that they are related to us cannot be proven. Forgive me if I remain skeptical.

 

[Polymath257]

However, the assumption that they are related to us cannot be proven. Forgive me if I remain skeptical.

What do you think is required to prove that?

They certainly existed prior to anatomically modern humans. They had fire. They hunted with tools made with a technology that lasted thousands of years.

As far as I know, no genetic material has been found in H. erectus fossils, but there are other ways of showing relatedness.

 

[sayak83]

That looks a lot more like the skull of an ape-like animal than a human. One must assume it is human, it certainly in no wise is an actual obvious human.

Chimpanzee has 500 cc brain. Homo erectus brain size is 950 cc on average.

Homo erectus and Middle Pleistocene hominins: brain size, skull form, and species recognition. - PubMed - NCBI

Here, both H. erectus and later mid-Pleistocene hominins are the focus of an investigation aimed at clarifying the relationships among brain volume, basicranial dimensions, neurocranial shape, and certain facial characters. Brain size in H. erectus averages about 950 cm(3), while in a series of Middle Pleistocene crania from Africa and Europe, volume is about 1230 cm(3). If encephalization is the primary mechanism operating in the mid-Pleistocene, then diverse aspects of cranial form cannot all be treated as independent variables. Correlation is utilized to examine the associations among measurements for more than 30 H. erectus crania that are reasonably well preserved. A similar approach is used with the Middle Pleistocene sample. Patterns of covariation are compared in order to assess integration. Next, factor analysis is applied to the H. erectus specimens in an attempt to identify modules, tightly integrated traits that can evolve independently. Studies of the variation within H. erectus are followed by direct comparisons with the Middle Pleistocene population. Discriminant functions facilitate the description of intergroup differences. Traits that vary independently from brain volume include anterior frontal broadening, lateral expansion of the parietal vault, elevation of the lambda-inion chord, and rounding of the sagittal contour of the occipital. This finding helps to resolve the problem of species recognition. Neurocranial proportions as well as characters from the cranial base and face can be incorporated into a differential diagnosis for the mid-Pleistocene sample. Evidence presented here supports arguments for speciation in the Middle Pleistocene.

 

[DavidFirth]

What do you think is required to prove that?

They certainly existed prior to anatomically modern humans. They had fire. They hunted with tools made with a technology that lasted thousands of years.

As far as I know, no genetic material has been found in H. erectus fossils, but there are other ways of showing relatedness.

Well, until/unless you can prove it I will never believe it.

 

[DavidFirth]

Chimpanzee has 500 cc brain. Homo erectus brain size is 950 cc on average.

Homo erectus and Middle Pleistocene hominins: brain size, skull form, and species recognition. - PubMed - NCBI

Here, both H. erectus and later mid-Pleistocene hominins are the focus of an investigation aimed at clarifying the relationships among brain volume, basicranial dimensions, neurocranial shape, and certain facial characters. Brain size in H. erectus averages about 950 cm(3), while in a series of Middle Pleistocene crania from Africa and Europe, volume is about 1230 cm(3). If encephalization is the primary mechanism operating in the mid-Pleistocene, then diverse aspects of cranial form cannot all be treated as independent variables. Correlation is utilized to examine the associations among measurements for more than 30 H. erectus crania that are reasonably well preserved. A similar approach is used with the Middle Pleistocene sample. Patterns of covariation are compared in order to assess integration. Next, factor analysis is applied to the H. erectus specimens in an attempt to identify modules, tightly integrated traits that can evolve independently. Studies of the variation within H. erectus are followed by direct comparisons with the Middle Pleistocene population. Discriminant functions facilitate the description of intergroup differences. Traits that vary independently from brain volume include anterior frontal broadening, lateral expansion of the parietal vault, elevation of the lambda-inion chord, and rounding of the sagittal contour of the occipital. This finding helps to resolve the problem of species recognition. Neurocranial proportions as well as characters from the cranial base and face can be incorporated into a differential diagnosis for the mid-Pleistocene sample. Evidence presented here supports arguments for speciation in the Middle Pleistocene.

So you've established similarities. Now explain all the differences.

 

[Polymath257]

Well, until/unless you can prove it I will never believe it.

What would it take to prove it to you?

 

[Polymath257]

So you've established similarities. Now explain all the differences.

They are a different species.

 

[sayak83]

So you've established similarities. Now explain all the differences.

950 cc. Brain size of Modern humans is 1300 cc. Hence it's a different species of humans, less intelligent than us. Capable of making stone tools, but not culture etc.

 

[gnostic]

Third, about 10,000 years ago was when *agriculture* got started: planting and harvesting crops, domestication of animals, etc. This was also when humans started creating *buildings* for worship, etc. But this was a rather late development in the overall course of human development.

Don't forget the pottery industry began not long after 10k ago.

With a more permanent settlement due to farming, large pottery were made and often used to store grain, food and drink.

 

[gnostic]

OK, if you do not want to take the Smithsonian National Museum of Natural History’s figure’s, that is OK with me. I question them myself.

“Humans and the great apes (large apes) of Africa -- chimpanzees (including bonobos, or so-called “pygmy chimpanzees”) and gorillas -- share a common ancestor that lived between 8 and 6 million years ago. Humans first evolved in Africa, and much of human evolution occurred on that continent. The fossils of early humans who lived between 6 and 2 million years ago come entirely from Africa.”

So, it is your claim that this is false, is that correct?

Introduction to Human Evolution | The Smithsonian Institution's Human Origins Program

The 6 and 2 million years are referring to earlier species of the genus Homo.

The anatomically modern human, Homo sapiens, as everyone have been telling you, only date as early as around 200,000 years ago.

The most dominant species from around 2 million to as late as 143,000 years ago, were the Homo erectus.

So regarding to Smithsonian's 2 million years ago, this is more likely to be the Homo erectus or even the Homo habilis, AND NOT the Homo sapiens.

 

[Ted Evans]

The 6 and 2 million years are referring to earlier species of the genus Homo.

["Human evolution is the lengthy process of change by which people originated from apelike ancestors. Scientific evidence shows that the physical and behavioral traits shared by all people originated from apelike ancestors and evolved over a period of approximately six million years.

One of the earliest defining human traits, bipedalism -- the ability to walk on two legs -- evolved over 4 million years ago. Other important human characteristics -- such as a large and complex brain, the ability to make and use tools, and the capacity for language -- developed more recently. Many advanced traits -- including complex symbolic expression, art, and elaborate cultural diversity -- emerged mainly during the past 100,000 years.

Humans are primates. Physical and genetic similarities show that the modern human species, Homo sapiens, has a very close relationship to another group of primate species, the apes. Humans and the great apes (large apes) of Africa -- chimpanzees (including bonobos, or so-called “pygmy chimpanzees”) and gorillas -- share a common ancestor that lived between 8 and 6 million years ago. Humans first evolved in Africa, and much of human evolution occurred on that continent. The fossils of early humans who lived between 6 and 2 million years ago come entirely from Africa."

Definition of "humans" from MW.

": a bipedal primate mammal (Homo sapiens) : MAN; broadly : HOMINID"

IOW, the OP was not about apes and gorillas, it is about humans.]

 

[Polymath257]

["Human evolution is the lengthy process of change by which people originated from apelike ancestors. Scientific evidence shows that the physical and behavioral traits shared by all people originated from apelike ancestors and evolved over a period of approximately six million years.

One of the earliest defining human traits, bipedalism -- the ability to walk on two legs -- evolved over 4 million years ago. Other important human characteristics -- such as a large and complex brain, the ability to make and use tools, and the capacity for language -- developed more recently. Many advanced traits -- including complex symbolic expression, art, and elaborate cultural diversity -- emerged mainly during the past 100,000 years.

Humans are primates. Physical and genetic similarities show that the modern human species, Homo sapiens, has a very close relationship to another group of primate species, the apes. Humans and the great apes (large apes) of Africa -- chimpanzees (including bonobos, or so-called “pygmy chimpanzees”) and gorillas -- share a common ancestor that lived between 8 and 6 million years ago. Humans first evolved in Africa, and much of human evolution occurred on that continent. The fossils of early humans who lived between 6 and 2 million years ago come entirely from Africa."

Definition of "humans" from MW.

": a bipedal primate mammal (Homo sapiens) : MAN; broadly : HOMINID"

IOW, the OP was not about apes and gorillas, it is about humans.]

In other words

'LA LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!'

 

[sayak83]

["Human evolution is the lengthy process of change by which people originated from apelike ancestors. Scientific evidence shows that the physical and behavioral traits shared by all people originated from apelike ancestors and evolved over a period of approximately six million years.

One of the earliest defining human traits, bipedalism -- the ability to walk on two legs -- evolved over 4 million years ago. Other important human characteristics -- such as a large and complex brain, the ability to make and use tools, and the capacity for language -- developed more recently. Many advanced traits -- including complex symbolic expression, art, and elaborate cultural diversity -- emerged mainly during the past 100,000 years.

Humans are primates. Physical and genetic similarities show that the modern human species, Homo sapiens, has a very close relationship to another group of primate species, the apes. Humans and the great apes (large apes) of Africa -- chimpanzees (including bonobos, or so-called “pygmy chimpanzees”) and gorillas -- share a common ancestor that lived between 8 and 6 million years ago. Humans first evolved in Africa, and much of human evolution occurred on that continent. The fossils of early humans who lived between 6 and 2 million years ago come entirely from Africa."

Definition of "humans" from MW.

": a bipedal primate mammal (Homo sapiens) : MAN; broadly : HOMINID"

IOW, the OP was not about apes and gorillas, it is about humans.]

Which part of this reply below to your point was not clear?

Evidence of Homo Sapiens on earth

You need to be specific. Are you interested in discussing about all hominid species or only the species we belong to, Homo sapiens? These Hominids are multiple types of extinct species that had characteristics intermediate between modern humans and ape common ancestors and are part of the evolutionary lineage that eventually gave rise to our species 200,000 years ago. They were neither modern humans nor Chimpanzee like apes but various shades of intermediate beings.

Human evolution tracks the gradual emergence of modern human species through evolution during the course of which many different types of these hominid species evolved, lived and went extinct.

Homo sapiens - Wikipedia

Homo sapiens (Latin: "wise man") is the binomial nomenclature (also known as the scientific name) for the only extant human species. Homo is the human genus, which also includes Neanderthals and many other extinctspecies of hominin; H. sapiens is the only surviving species of the genus Homo.

The time frame for the evolution of the genus Homo out of the chimpanzee–human last common ancestor is roughly 10 to 2 million years ago, that of H. sapiens out of Homo erectus roughly 1.8 to 0.2 million years ago.

Scientific study of human evolution is concerned, primarily, with the development of the genus Homo (extant and extinct human species), but usually involves studying other hominids as well, i.e. other "great apes"; these include Australopithecus, an important ancestor of humans, and our current as well as extinct relatives among the Homininaesubfamily: chimpanzees, bonobos, gorillas, and the related extinct hominins.

"Modern humans" are defined as the Homo sapiens species, of which the only extant subspecies is known as Homo sapiens sapiens.




Therefore, be specific. Do you want to discuss the entire course of human evolution that involves discussing many hominid species (often colloquially called ape-men or ancient humans) that lived and died over a 7 million year period, or do you want to discuss the emergence of culture in our species, the modern human Homo sapiens, that emerged 200,000 years ago?

 

[gnostic]

["Human evolution is the lengthy process of change by which people originated from apelike ancestors. Scientific evidence shows that the physical and behavioral traits shared by all people originated from apelike ancestors and evolved over a period of approximately six million years.

One of the earliest defining human traits, bipedalism -- the ability to walk on two legs -- evolved over 4 million years ago. Other important human characteristics -- such as a large and complex brain, the ability to make and use tools, and the capacity for language -- developed more recently. Many advanced traits -- including complex symbolic expression, art, and elaborate cultural diversity -- emerged mainly during the past 100,000 years.

Humans are primates. Physical and genetic similarities show that the modern human species, Homo sapiens, has a very close relationship to another group of primate species, the apes. Humans and the great apes (large apes) of Africa -- chimpanzees (including bonobos, or so-called “pygmy chimpanzees”) and gorillas -- share a common ancestor that lived between 8 and 6 million years ago. Humans first evolved in Africa, and much of human evolution occurred on that continent. The fossils of early humans who lived between 6 and 2 million years ago come entirely from Africa."

Definition of "humans" from MW.

": a bipedal primate mammal (Homo sapiens) : MAN; broadly : HOMINID"

IOW, the OP was not about apes and gorillas, it is about humans.]

I have already read these, Ted.

Human evolution means all species that fall under the genus Homo, so that would include the H. habilis, H. Erectus, H. sapiens, etc. Homo sapiens is just one of number species in the human evolution.

I think the Smithsonian is referring to all species of Homo, not just the modern human, Homo sapiens.

But the Homo sapiens are only found around 200,000 years ago.

You are mistaken if you think Homo sapiens exist 2 million years ago or more. I believed that what you have quoted, you have misunderstood the Smithsonian source, and took the "human" to mean modern human (Homo sapiens), which is really not the case; it is referring to all human species, as in all Homo species.

Everyone here, have already explain this to you. Why are you understanding what they are telling you?

 

[Polymath257]

["Human evolution is the lengthy process of change by which people originated from apelike ancestors. Scientific evidence shows that the physical and behavioral traits shared by all people originated from apelike ancestors and evolved over a period of approximately six million years.

One of the earliest defining human traits, bipedalism -- the ability to walk on two legs -- evolved over 4 million years ago. Other important human characteristics -- such as a large and complex brain, the ability to make and use tools, and the capacity for language -- developed more recently. Many advanced traits -- including complex symbolic expression, art, and elaborate cultural diversity -- emerged mainly during the past 100,000 years.

Humans are primates. Physical and genetic similarities show that the modern human species, Homo sapiens, has a very close relationship to another group of primate species, the apes. Humans and the great apes (large apes) of Africa -- chimpanzees (including bonobos, or so-called “pygmy chimpanzees”) and gorillas -- share a common ancestor that lived between 8 and 6 million years ago. Humans first evolved in Africa, and much of human evolution occurred on that continent. The fossils of early humans who lived between 6 and 2 million years ago come entirely from Africa."

Definition of "humans" from MW.

": a bipedal primate mammal (Homo sapiens) : MAN; broadly : HOMINID"

IOW, the OP was not about apes and gorillas, it is about humans.]

Just to be really, really clear.

In this quote, the word 'human' refers to any species in the genus 'Homo'. That includes species *other* than Homo sapiens, such as Homo habilus, Homo erectus and Homo heidelbergensis.

In your OP, you asked *specifically* about Homo sapiens. That is *our* species and has only existed for the last 200,000 years or so. The *other* species of the genus Homo go back much farther.

Please learn a bit here. There are distinctions you are ignoring that are relevant for the discussion.

So, do you want to know about Homo sapiens specifically or do you want to know about the other species of 'early humans' that existed?

 

[Sanzbir]

For example, studies of the time required in hunter-gatherer societies to find and process food suggests that they spend *less* time than a typical person in a modern society.

Sorry. But this is easily disproven. If a man can get MORE with LESS TIME by being a hunter-gatherer, then why aren't we all hunter gatherers??

Humans are not stupid. At least, not that stupid.

If it takes more work to make things grow and harvest them than it takes to hunt and forage for your food, I must ask you why would anyone, ever farm??

Are you saying that thousands of years ago, two caveman had a conversation that went something like this:

Bob: Hey John!! I've developed a new method of getting food from the ground!!
John: Oh?? Is it easier than hunting??
Bob: Not at all!! It's much harder!!
John: You don't say?? Well let's do that then instead!!

Sorry, but the idea that hunter-gatherers had more free time than farmers is just so laughable. If that were the case, we as a species would have never developed farming!! Because there would be no point.

 

[DavidFirth]

Sorry. But this is easily disproven. If a man can get MORE with LESS TIME by being a hunter-gatherer, then why aren't we all hunter gatherers??

Humans are not stupid. At least, not that stupid.

If it takes more work to make things grow and harvest them than it takes to hunt and forage for your food, I must ask you why would anyone, ever farm??

Are you saying that thousands of years ago, two caveman had a conversation that went something like this:

Bob: Hey John!! I've developed a new method of getting food from the ground!!
John: Oh?? Is it easier than hunting??
Bob: Not at all!! It's much harder!!
John: You don't say?? Well let's do that then instead!!

Sorry, but the idea that hunter-gatherers had more free time than farmers is just so laughable. If that were the case, we as a species would have never developed farming!! Because there would be no point.

I don't know where you got that from but I never said that or posted it.

 

[Polymath257]

Sorry. But this is easily disproven. If a man can get MORE with LESS TIME by being a hunter-gatherer, then why aren't we all hunter gatherers??

Humans are not stupid. At least, not that stupid.

Well, time isn't the only value. Having a consistent supply of food, especially through droughts and other disasters, is another. Being able to focus on the chores one is good at is another.

Another interesting thing that has been discovered: the nutritional level between the hunter-gatherers and the first farmers *decreases*. One of the main reasons is the decrease in variation in the meals. The farmers tend to focus on the crops and domesticated animals and thereby have a less diverse menu. This often leads to vitamin deficiencies in early farmers.

 

[Polymath257]

I don't know where you got that from but I never said that or posted it.

That was me. I don't know why your name came out on it, though.

 

[DavidFirth]

That was me. I don't know why your name came out on it, though.

Okay. Thank you for clearing that up for everyone else.