1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Evidence for the Resurrection of Jesus?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Sylvester Clark, May 4, 2021.

  1. Jimmy

    Jimmy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2019
    Messages:
    2,489
    Ratings:
    +798
    It is literal
    U missed it
     
  2. Jimmy

    Jimmy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2019
    Messages:
    2,489
    Ratings:
    +798
    All rise!
     
  3. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    18,698
    Ratings:
    +2,250
    Sylvester Clark "Jesus was raised from the dead "

    Jesus did not die and could not die on the Cross. So, there is no question of his being raised or resurrected. Right?

    Regards
     
  4. Jimmy

    Jimmy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2019
    Messages:
    2,489
    Ratings:
    +798
    Not
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  5. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    18,698
    Ratings:
    +2,250
    ChristineM "but succumbed to blood poisoning from the iron nails and died"
    And one's evidence for the above, please.

    Regards
     
  6. Left Coast

    Left Coast Circular File Complaint Analyst
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2019
    Messages:
    6,205
    Ratings:
    +9,241
    Religion:
    Dharmic Dabbler
    There are many dying-and-rising deities and demi-gods in mythologies around the world (and specifically in the ANE). Christianity appears to be the Jewish variation on the same theme.

    One of the problems with using the criterion of embarrassment to determine what's historical in the Gospels is that what would be embarrassing to us is not necessarily embarrassing to 1st century Christians. The entire point of Christianity, theologically speaking, is to turn the traditional notions of power and victory and glory on their heads.

    "For God’s foolishness is wiser than human wisdom, and God’s weakness is stronger than human strength...God chose what is low and despised in the world, things that are not, to reduce to nothing things that are, so that no one might boast in the presence of God."
    1 Corinthians 1:25, 27-29

    Jesus, per the Gospels, was born under morally dubious circumstances in a little podunk town to a family that was working class, opposed the mainstream Jewish leadership of his day, intentionally kept his ministry a secret and spoke to the masses in riddles so they wouldn't understand him, taught that "the first will be last and the last will be first in the kingdom," and was ultimately betrayed and disowned by his own closest disciples to be sentenced to death for blasphemy. From beginning to end it's a story written to contradict what you'd expect the story of a victorious mighty king to be like. That's the entire point.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. darkskies

    darkskies Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2021
    Messages:
    489
    Ratings:
    +398
    Religion:
    None
    I contend the definition of "death" used in the sources. The current understanding of what a proper death is took us until the mid 19th century to get to, and is still under scrutiny.
     
  8. Jimmy

    Jimmy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2019
    Messages:
    2,489
    Ratings:
    +798
    Surprised we knew him at all
     
  9. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2013
    Messages:
    10,781
    Ratings:
    +2,942
    What are the "Early, independent accounts that all claimed Jesus was raised from the dead"?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2013
    Messages:
    10,781
    Ratings:
    +2,942
    You dont even have any evidence that these people were killed or martyred except for third party, latter hearsay.

    Also, there are suicide bombers who killed the prime minister of India in the name of their Leninist cause. That does not make their cause a divine one.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Winner Winner x 1
  11. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    26,454
    Ratings:
    +13,238
    Religion:
    Vedanta (reform)
    But this is religious folklore. How is it any more authoritative than any other folklore?
    There's no real evidence supporting this.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  12. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    26,454
    Ratings:
    +13,238
    Religion:
    Vedanta (reform)
    WHAT evidence he rose?
     
  13. Rival

    Rival Ankh, Wedja, Seneb
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2012
    Messages:
    19,719
    Ratings:
    +27,760
    Religion:
    Kemetic Pagan
    I disagree with this. I think the reason Christianity became this way in the first place is because the disciples weren't expecting him to be crucified. They had to re-examine their understanding of the Messiah. Such a phenomenon has been well documented among modern cult members where such events actually make their faith stronger instead of hitting it with a deadly blow. Jesus being crucified is, as I said, not even really contested by secular scholars. Another user on this thread gave quotes to such effect.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    31,402
    Ratings:
    +12,152
    Religion:
    liber-scripta grim Christian
    An ironic statement. If I reject your interpretation then I'm different than you are at least in that respect. We walk in the light rather than make it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Jimmy

    Jimmy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2019
    Messages:
    2,489
    Ratings:
    +798
    All around u
     
  16. Left Coast

    Left Coast Circular File Complaint Analyst
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2019
    Messages:
    6,205
    Ratings:
    +9,241
    Religion:
    Dharmic Dabbler
    A number of modern secular scholars have questioned the historicity of the crucifixion (and Jesus as a person, period): Robert Price, Richard Carrier, and Hector Avalos, to name a few. Although it is still a minority opinion, I don't think it should be dismissed so readily. Dying and rising divine figures are a well known mythological archetype. Combined with the other thoroughly mythological elements (in both content and composition) of the Gospels, and the theological theme of salvation through the unexpected (a theological motif borrowed from Judaism as well), it makes at least as much sense to me to see the crucifixion as fabricated as not.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2013
    Messages:
    10,781
    Ratings:
    +2,942
    Probably the best explanation of evidence that any one has ever uttered. "All around you" is as good as a Phd thesis.

    Excellent.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Jimmy

    Jimmy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2019
    Messages:
    2,489
    Ratings:
    +798
    Y tank u
    Ain’t got time to bs ya with o lot a fluff
     
  19. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2018
    Messages:
    11,890
    Ratings:
    +11,076
    Religion:
    RC (culturally at least)
    OK, those are good references. You've convinced me.:thumbsup:
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  20. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2012
    Messages:
    9,145
    Ratings:
    +8,776
    Religion:
    Pluralist Hindu
    Think of Elvis is not dead movement.
    Why Do Some People Think Elvis Is Still Alive?
    There are several more such instances from very different cultures
    Solving the Mystery of Netaji's ‘Disappearance’: Part One
    I have no doubt that the early Christians fervently believed that Jesus resurrected and will come again soon bringing in the kingdom of God where they will be honored above all people. That strong belief in an imminent end to this world and the coming of a new glorious age where they too will be made anew like Jesus no doubt sustained the movement. The eschatology also attracted non Jews where similar beliefs and cults were far more common. After the fall of the temple in the war, the movement lost most of its Jewish connection and essentially became a gentile messianic movement.
    The movement never made much inroads among the Jews, for while Jesus had some popularity, very few believed the claims made about his resurrection.
    That is my tentative assessment.
     
    • Like Like x 2
Loading...