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Featured Evidence for the Resurrection of Jesus?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Sylvester Clark, May 4, 2021.

  1. Sylvester Clark

    Sylvester Clark New Member

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    Interesting suggestion. I'm not aware of any other records of anyone surviving crucifixion. Also, how could he possibly have recovered so completely that his disciples would have thought he had supernaturally risen from the dead? It would seem that if he somehow managed to survive the cross, it would have taken him weeks or months to recover from his wounds (brutal flogging, pierced hands and feet, pierced side).

    I agree with you that his voluntary acceptance of suffering is quite remarkable, and is evidence that he was not an ordinary guy. I don't know that it proves his divinity, since there have been other people throughout history that have voluntarily endured immense suffering for a cause they believed in.
     
  2. Jimmy

    Jimmy Well-Known Member

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    He be walkin on Lake Michigan
     
  3. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    My view of repentance (repentance being resurrection) is not new. It begins with the Jewish prophets who are very influential in Christian language. Why wouldn't Jesus and his disciples borrow this usage? They did use it.

    [Isa 26:5, 18-19 NIV] 5 He humbles those who dwell on high, he lays the lofty city low; he levels it to the ground and casts it down to the dust. ... 18 We were with child, we writhed in labor, but we gave birth to wind. We have not brought salvation to the earth, and the people of the world have not come to life. 19 But your dead will live, LORD; their bodies will rise--let those who dwell in the dust wake up and shout for joy--your dew is like the dew of the morning; the earth will give birth to her dead.
    Notice how Isaiah speaks poetically about dead people rising, but he's actually talking about something else! The gospel of John alludes to the above passage in Isaiah where the people of the earth, though they are literally alive are spoken of as if literally dead. As you can see Isaiah is talking about bodies rising, but he means repentance. So what is John talking about?
    [Jhn 5:25 NIV] 25 Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.​
    The above is not something that happens in isolation, and I won't have people telling me that they have all of this tied up and settled 'Because dogma'. The usages in the gospels are not new. They are old, old, old usages.

    Am I claiming that no one can be resurrected physically by miraculous powers? No, of course not. I'm saying that's very-likely-not what's really being discussed when the NT is talking about resurrection. I'm saying that an afterlife is not important to a Christian, because a Christian has denied himself. His or her life is in Christ, and Christ (like Israel) is what is resurrected.
     
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  4. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    Like I said, scripture and the creeds, and in the case of Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox, there is also the Church.
     
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  5. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    ...and using that scripture I could 100% support an argument that repentance is the resurrection. How is that possible if there is only one way of looking at it? ;)
     
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  6. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    The same reason I don't accept that George Washington chopped down the cherry tree but accept that he was the first President of the United States.
     
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  7. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    No, for you to do this, you would have to completely reject the gospel stories, which are very clearly talking about a literal resurrection.
     
  8. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    You already have rejected the gospel stories and don't consider them relevant to yourself and have said so more than once in this forum. I've read the gospel stories and placed them into context. That's not rejecting them.
     
  9. Sylvester Clark

    Sylvester Clark New Member

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    I totally agree with you that the Bible uses the language of death and resurrection as a metaphor for sin and repentance/redemption. You quoted several instances. Another clear one is Ephesians 2:1-6 (There are many others as well.)

    "And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph 2:1–6 ESV).

    I don't think we can conclude, however, that every time the Bible speaks of resurrection it is speaking metaphorically. The resurrection of Jesus, for instance, is clearly portrayed as literal (e.g. in 1 Corinthians 15 as I posted earlier, and elsewhere as well, such as the gospel accounts). If resurrection from the dead is always referring to repentance from sin, that would imply that Jesus was dead in sins, and his resurrection was simply his repentance from sin. That is very unbiblical. The Bible is clear that Jesus did not sin (Heb. 4:15; 1 Pet. 2:22, 1 John 3:5).
     
  10. robocop (actually)

    robocop (actually) Well-Known Member
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    Don't forget, the book of mormon has jesus appearing to the Americas. Other sheep I have which are not of this fold.
     
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  11. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    I'm not concluding anything with finality about how the scripture must be interpreted by everyone. To me its not necessarily a metaphor and looks more like a way of speaking. To conclude what it absolutely is would require an authority, but there isn't one except for one in heaven. Its not me, and I won't accept any person as that final authority. Let each person look to their own conscience, the intelligence they have been given, the measure of umph that they have.

    I'm willing to break bread with any other Christian who thinks the resurrection is about an afterlife. I'm not cutting anyone off, not after the lessons I have learned. I'm also not going to sit everyone down at my feet to be my disciples. We can't always know everything, and we can agree to live as Jesus disciples without bossing each other around. Are we still Jesus disciples if we don't always agree? His twelve didn't always agree. What he told them was not to quarrel on the way.
     
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  12. Psalm23

    Psalm23 Member

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    He is risen indeed.
     
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  13. Jimmy

    Jimmy Well-Known Member

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    Yeah we chat from time to time.
    Oh shoot I didn’t want anybody know that I talk to myself. Bwahahahaha
     
  14. Psalm23

    Psalm23 Member

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    I believe he is risen. Jesus is my Lord and Savior.
     
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  15. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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  16. Jimmy

    Jimmy Well-Known Member

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    cool:cool:
     
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  17. Jimmy

    Jimmy Well-Known Member

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    The dude rose bro
     
  18. Jimmy

    Jimmy Well-Known Member

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    The evidence that he rose
    Now he’s walk-in on water in Australia
     
  19. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    If you reject the gospel stories of a literal resurrection, you are no different than I am.
     
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  20. Jimmy

    Jimmy Well-Known Member

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    You’ll never get evidence
    Resurrection involves more than one knows
     
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