Evidence for an ancient earth

[metis]

So what if your hindu god is not true.

Why are you assuming that the "Hindu god" and the "Christian god" are different gods?

 

[McBell]

You lose, you just gave yourself away, by saying ( what if ) that means your not even sure of yourself who is and who is not.

And thus the reason honest discourse with you is not possible.

 

[Polymath257]

No, what I am saying, that I do believe in God.
But after I die and find there is no God, I haven't lost a thing no matter what the outcome is.

But if there is God after I die, I win.

Only if the God you chose is the correct one. If Islam is correct, you lose.

Now let's say a person who does not believe in God.
And after they die and find there is no God, they didn't lose a thing.
But say, after they die and find there is God, they lose.
You see i haven't lost a thing, no matter what the outcome is.
But that person will lose, if there is God after they die, they definitely will lose.

That depends on whether that God respects honesty and integrity. If so, then the honest atheist would win and the dishonest believer would lose.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Only if the God you chose is the correct one. If Islam is correct, you lose.



That depends on whether that God respects honesty and integrity. If so, then the honest atheist would win and the dishonest believer would lose.

I don't know how you figure that out.

Seeing Islam worships the God of Abraham and I worship the God of Abraham, Go Figure

 

[sayak83]

I don't know how you figure that out.

Seeing Islam worships the God of Abraham and I worship the God of Abraham, Go Figure

As the Quran says, anybody who believes that Jesus is divine and died and rose from the dead is going to Hell.

 

[Polymath257]

I don't know how you figure that out.

Seeing Islam worships the God of Abraham and I worship the God of Abraham, Go Figure

That's what they believe, yes. You also believe that. That doesn't mean you believe the same thing.

 

[Faithofchristian]

As the Quran says, anybody who believes that Jesus is divine and died and rose from the dead is going to Hell.

No that is not what the Q'uran says, its what Muhammad said.

 

[Polymath257]

No that is not what the Q'uran says, its what Muhammad said.

And the Q'uran is a collection of things that Muhammad said that were dictated directly to him by an angel. Well, that is their belief. Again, if they are correct, then you lose.

 

[Faithofchristian]

That's what they believe, yes. You also believe that. That doesn't mean you believe the same thing.

There is nothing wrong i

And the Q'uran is a collection of things that Muhammad said that were dictated directly to him by an angel. Well, that is their belief. Again, if they are correct, then you lose.

Your right about that, that the things in the Q'uran are what Muhammad said, So where is Muhammad witnesses to prove what he said is right. That were dictated to him by an angel.

So you will say what about those prophets in the bible.

Let's take Daniel the prophet, The King of Babylon had a dream and not even the kings astrologers nor his wizards nor the kings priest could tell the king what his dream ment.
The king of Babylon would not tell them what his dream was or about.
But yet they couldn't tell the king what his dream ment if the king would tell them anything about his dream.

Now comes Daniel the prophet, and tells the king of Babylon, There's is a God in heaven that can tell what your dream is and what your dream is about.

See you are right about Muhammad in the Q'uran it's all about what Muhammad said,
That angel dictated to him.

But here with Daniel the prophet, Daniel didn't know what dream the king had or what it was about.
But yet Daniel told the king the God of heaven will reveal it and Daniel prayed to the God of heaven for the answer to the king of Babylon dream and then Daniel told the king all about his dream and what it ment.
And then the king of Babylon had all his astrologers, Wizards and priest killed for he found that they were all False.

The point that I'm trying to make is, That your absolutely right about Muhammad. That it's all about what he said. And no witnesses to prove what he said to be right.
You would at lease think that since muhammad couldn't read or write and supposedly to be a prophet of God's.

You would at lease think that Muhammad's God would at lease enable Muhammad to read and write as he did all the other prophets in the bible. To be able to write down what is dictated to him.

Muhammad's god can't be that all powerful if he can't in power Muhammad to read or write.

 

[SkepticThinker]

There's one problem with Pascal's Wager, it's one sided. Is the argument that it is in one's own best interest to believe as if God does exist,
Pascal's Wager for those who believe in God, to help fortify their belief in God.

Pascal was a French man who lived back in 1623 - 62. And he went about to the churches and give them what came to be known as Pascal's Wager.

Hedge Betting came by professional gamblers, who would Hedge bet on their bets. Which is they would cover all their basis leaving ñothing to chance.

It's like you have your favorite football team, that you bet on, but also to cover yourself, you would also hedge bet on the opposing team, that way your covered all your basis leaving ñothing to chance.

Even if your favorite football team did not win, You still win, All because you place your hedge bet on the opposing team also.

Therefore I place myself that God does exist, but after I die I find that God doesn't exist, I lost nothing.

But after I die and find God does exist, I win
All because I didn't place everything on God doesn't exist.

You see I left nothing to chance. But your placing everything on that God doesn't exist, and you lose and I win.

You see either way I win and you lose.

You by your placing everything on that God doesn't exist, and upon you dieing and find God does exist,
You gave God every right to deny you also, What is Fair is Fair. Or to say,
What goes around comes around.

And what if you've chosen the wrong god(s)?

 

[Faithofchristian]

And what if you've chosen the wrong god(s)?

What do I lose, probably nothing. But if I do.i win and you lose. It's probably more of a game of chance. But as for me, I will lay everything on my God is the right one.

If not, I would rather lose than have a god who will have innocent people killed just because they do not see things according to Muslims way.

 

[sayak83]

No that is not what the Q'uran says, its what Muhammad said.

Umm, no its what Quran says in chapter 5:-

72Those who say, ‘God is the Messiah, son of Mary,’ have defied God. The
Messiah himself said, ‘Children of Israel, worship God, my Lord
and your Lord.’ If anyone associates others with God, God will
forbid him from the Garden, and Hell will be his home. No one will
help such evildoers.
73Those people who say that God is the third of three are defying
[the truth]: there is only One God. If they persist in what they are
saying, a painful punishment will afflict those of them who persist.

 

[SkepticThinker]

What do I lose, probably nothing. But if I do.i win and you lose. It's probably more of a game of chance. But as for me, I will lay everything on my God is the right one.

If not, I would rather lose than have a god who will have innocent people killed just because they do not see things according to Muslims way.

If you choose to worship the Christian god, and you die and find out Thor is actually in charge, I don't think you win. Same goes for any of the thousands of other gods people have believed in since we've been on this planet.

Pascal's Wager doesn't work. That's the point everyone is trying to make to you.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Umm, no its what Quran says in chapter 5:-

72Those who say, ‘God is the Messiah, son of Mary,’ have defied God. The
Messiah himself said, ‘Children of Israel, worship God, my Lord
and your Lord.’ If anyone associates others with God, God will
forbid him from the Garden, and Hell will be his home. No one will
help such evildoers.
73Those people who say that God is the third of three are defying
[the truth]: there is only One God. If they persist in what they are
saying, a painful punishment will afflict those of them who persist.

And just who wrote the Q'uran, seeing Muhammad could not read nor write?

It is said in the Q'uran that Muhammad had his wife for him.
But how would Muhammad know for sure what his wife wrote for sure, Seeing Muhammad could not read nor write?

Therefore someone Written the Q'uran?

Therefore the whole Q'uran was written by his wife and none of the Q'uran was written by Muhammad himself.
So again, how would Muhammad know for sure what his wife Written, seeing Muhammad could not read nor write.

 

[Faithofchristian]

If you choose to worship the Christian god, and you die and find out Thor is actually in charge, I don't think you win. Same goes for any of the thousands of other gods people have believed in since we've been on this planet.

Pascal's Wager doesn't work. That's the point everyone is trying to make to you.

Have you any idea what Pascal's Wager is about?

Back during 1623-62, there was this French man named Pascal and being a Christian himself.
Pascal came up with this Wager to help Christians to fortify their belief in God.

Which now has come down to us as Pascal's Wager. Which was only for Christians only.
Which Pascal went to the Christian churches at his time, that it was in the best interest for Christians to believe that God does exist, Since the possibility of eternal punishment in hell out weighs any other advantage of not believing in God.

Therefore Pascal's Wager was for only Christians to help fortify their belief in God and no one else.

 

[sayak83]

And just who wrote the Q'uran, seeing Muhammad could not read nor write?

It is said in the Q'uran that Muhammad had his wife for him.
But how would Muhammad know for sure what his wife wrote for sure, Seeing Muhammad could not read nor write?

Therefore someone Written the Q'uran?

Therefore the whole Q'uran was written by his wife and none of the Q'uran was written by Muhammad himself.
So again, how would Muhammad know for sure what his wife Written, seeing Muhammad could not read nor write.

Quran is the direct word of God, dictated by an Angel to Muhammad who recited it so that it is exactly copied by his followers without mistakes. That Quran says you are going to Hell for believing Jesus is divine. This refutes your original claim that both you and the Muslims are worshiping the same God and hence if Islam is true, you are not going to hell.

It's your right to disbelieve the Quran, as is my right to disbelieve the claims of the Bible. But then, if the Quran is true and you are worshiping Jesus falsely, you are going to Hell too.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Have you any idea what Pascal's Wager is about?

Back during 1623-62, there was this French man named Pascal and being a Christian himself.
Pascal came up with this Wager to help Christians to fortify their belief in God.

Which now has come down to us as Pascal's Wager. Which was only for Christians only.
Which Pascal went to the Christian churches at his time, that it was in the best interest for Christians to believe that God does exist, Since the possibility of eternal punishment in hell out weighs any other advantage of not believing in God.

Therefore Pascal's Wager was for only Christians to help fortify their belief in God and no one else.

Yes, I am familiar with it.

Pascal's Wager is flawed because:

1) There are more than 2 choices, as there are many gods to choose from.
2) It assumes people can force themselves to believe in a thing.
3) It assumes the god(s) you've chosen to believe in wouldn't be able to know that you're just hedging your bets.

Even if it is "just for Christians," how does one know if the denomination they've chosen is the right one? There are dozens and dozens of them.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Yes, I do. It doesn't matter if you think it was designed just for Christians.

Pascal's Wager is flawed because:

1) There are more than 2 choices, as there are many gods to choose from.
2) It assumes people can force themselves to believe in a thing.
3) It assumes the god(s) you've chosen to believe in wouldn't be able to know that you're just hedging your bets.

So you say ,But not for the Christian belief.

Maybe you should get your facts right, before you say.

Pascal's Wager was design for Christians only.

 

[SkepticThinker]

So you say ,But not for the Christian belief.

Maybe you should get your facts right, before you say.

Pascal's Wager was design for Christians only.

I think you need to read up a bit more on it.

It doesn't work for Christians either. Which of the dozens and dozens of Christian denominations is the correct one?

 

[sayak83]

So you say ,But not for the Christian belief.

Maybe you should get your facts right, before you say.

Pascal's Wager was design for Christians only.

It does not work for Christians as well if Allah is the true God. Then, the wager dictates you switch to worshiping Allah as consideration of Hell outweighs all else. Correct?