Interesting article on the Occupy Wall Street Protests. Do you think the points he makes are valid?
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Everything the Media told You about Occupy Wall Street is Wrong
- Thread starter Sunstone
- Start date
I don't disagree with what he says about the protesters, but neither
did the media give me the impressions about them that he claims.
Perhaps it's my it's my inadequate sources which had me thinking
that they're a diverse bunch.
did the media give me the impressions about them that he claims.
Perhaps it's my it's my inadequate sources which had me thinking
that they're a diverse bunch.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
I've heard all these allegations, but not from the media I watch - I've heard them from individuals from all walks of life, including eyewitnesses.
I don't know - I haven't been up to the Wall Street protests to witness them myself.
I agree with some of what some of the protestors are saying. But I do believe that the best venue for this is Washington. Mistaken or not - it seems that left wing/liberal politicians tend to think that most OWS protestors are supporting THEIR policies. If the majority of OWS protestors oppose the last six years of policy from our elected officials, they need to march on Washington and make that clear.
I say last SIX years because most of the members of Congress are career politicians. It is ridiculous to place the blame for the economic mess we're in solely at the feet of either GWB or Obama - or Wall Street.
I don't know - I haven't been up to the Wall Street protests to witness them myself.
I agree with some of what some of the protestors are saying. But I do believe that the best venue for this is Washington. Mistaken or not - it seems that left wing/liberal politicians tend to think that most OWS protestors are supporting THEIR policies. If the majority of OWS protestors oppose the last six years of policy from our elected officials, they need to march on Washington and make that clear.
I say last SIX years because most of the members of Congress are career politicians. It is ridiculous to place the blame for the economic mess we're in solely at the feet of either GWB or Obama - or Wall Street.
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Good post.
And good article.
Majikthise
nude
Unimpressive.
T-Dawg
Self-appointed Lunatic
So one source of media says other sources of media are lying, and no doubt the people who agree with the other media will say that this media is lying. Except for those actually able to physically attend the protest, we have no reliable way to tell what the truth is.
Situations like this are why we need a government owned media system.
Situations like this are why we need a government owned media system.
If one reads diverse sources, one wouldn't get the misimpressions claimed in the OP's article.
Perhaps even that article itself is a meta-misimpression, eh?
So that way we'll have a single view with no dissenting opinions....all run at various times by Reagan, Bush, Obama & perhaps Cain or Romney?
Could I be in charge of that?
Rakhel
Well-Known Member
What did he do? Go on a Saturday? Sheesh.
1. Myth #1 The movement is violent.
It does have elements of violence and several members have been violent since this started.
That particular picture was taken during a recent march that wasn't organized by OWS. It is an annual event that takes place in the same day of every year. Oct 22, in Union Square Park. OSW came along for the ride.
Myth #2 It's just a bunch of Pampered Kids.
He is half right. The majority of the occupiers are pampered kids, sitting there with their blackberries and who are educated.
Myth#3 there are no black people involved.
Don't know who told him there weren't
Myth #4 They are un-American
Again, where did this come from
Myth #5They are modern day hippies
You don't have to dress as they did in the '60's to be considered a hippie
Myth #6 They don't know what they want
He seemed to have contradicted himself. Individually, they know what they want. Collectively, they don't.
Myth #7 The Labor Unions Are Behind This
I will agree with what he said. There are no labor unions behind this movement. They have sent representatives on a few occasions, but that, by no means, means that the unions are behind it. There is, however, on unions standing strongly with this group. That is the Working Families Union.
Myth #8 They are Pro-Obama, They are Anti-Obama
No complaints there.
Myth #9 They are In the Wrong Place.
I think they are in the wrong place. But each is entitled to their own opinion.
Myth #10 They are taking over Wall Street
I have said this myself. Zuccotti park is in the shadow of WTC. About 2 blocks away from Wall street and about 3 from the Stock Exchange. They are only in Zuccotti park because it is the closest park they could legal camp out in without getting permits.
Him saying that the park is clean tells me that he went after the planned force evict and clean the city had planned. which was postponed by the owners of the park. that was also on a Saturday when the camp gets their biggest crowd. So, yes, there were high schoolers with their parents. Yes, there were people of all demographics there. They didn't have to go to work or to school.
1. Myth #1 The movement is violent.
It does have elements of violence and several members have been violent since this started.
That particular picture was taken during a recent march that wasn't organized by OWS. It is an annual event that takes place in the same day of every year. Oct 22, in Union Square Park. OSW came along for the ride.
Myth #2 It's just a bunch of Pampered Kids.
He is half right. The majority of the occupiers are pampered kids, sitting there with their blackberries and who are educated.
Myth#3 there are no black people involved.
Don't know who told him there weren't
Myth #4 They are un-American
Again, where did this come from
Myth #5They are modern day hippies
You don't have to dress as they did in the '60's to be considered a hippie
Myth #6 They don't know what they want
He seemed to have contradicted himself. Individually, they know what they want. Collectively, they don't.
Myth #7 The Labor Unions Are Behind This
I will agree with what he said. There are no labor unions behind this movement. They have sent representatives on a few occasions, but that, by no means, means that the unions are behind it. There is, however, on unions standing strongly with this group. That is the Working Families Union.
Myth #8 They are Pro-Obama, They are Anti-Obama
No complaints there.
Myth #9 They are In the Wrong Place.
I think they are in the wrong place. But each is entitled to their own opinion.
Myth #10 They are taking over Wall Street
I have said this myself. Zuccotti park is in the shadow of WTC. About 2 blocks away from Wall street and about 3 from the Stock Exchange. They are only in Zuccotti park because it is the closest park they could legal camp out in without getting permits.
Him saying that the park is clean tells me that he went after the planned force evict and clean the city had planned. which was postponed by the owners of the park. that was also on a Saturday when the camp gets their biggest crowd. So, yes, there were high schoolers with their parents. Yes, there were people of all demographics there. They didn't have to go to work or to school.
Mr Spinkles
Mr
Wouldn't the fact that many of the protesters are "pampered kids" make their actions *more* admirable and worthy, not less? After all they could be home, enjoying their "pampered" life and their youth. By participating in OWS they are making sacrifices for a worthy cause.
The educated youth are always important in any democratic movement, whether it's in China or the Soviet Union or Egypt or America. I'm pretty sure the Freedom Riders during the Civil Rights era were well-educated kids whose families were not impoverished. So what?
The educated youth are always important in any democratic movement, whether it's in China or the Soviet Union or Egypt or America. I'm pretty sure the Freedom Riders during the Civil Rights era were well-educated kids whose families were not impoverished. So what?
T-Dawg
Self-appointed Lunatic
Unless all the diverse sources are either lying or blatantly contradict each other with no clear indicator as to who is most accurate.
My point exactly.
It sounds like a terrible idea on paper, but it seemed to work for the BBC (minus the part of the government being the ONLY media outlet). Then again, Britain typically has more rational leaders and citizens than the United States...
No dissenting opinions? News isn't supposed to be about opinions. That's the problem with today's media, or at least one of the problems. They don't try to objectively report the facts as they used to, they try to market towards people who want to hear what they believe independently of reality.
Rakhel
Well-Known Member
someone is paying for their phones and internet..
I never said there was anything wrong with them being educated. I agree that it is very important to know what you are fighting against. I am just not sure they know what they are fighting for.
Mr Spinkles
Mr
And someone would not be paying for their phones, if they were not protesting? How is this relevant?rakhel said:
Someone must have paid for the food for the Chinese students who occupied Tianenman Square. Bunch of moochers.
tumbleweed41
Resident Liberal Hippie
Department of Propaganda?
No, no, no.....the very fact that they present opposing views is how one stays aware of such diversity.
You're a big Thatcher fan, eh?
All news is opinion. Decisions are made about what to cover & what to ignore, eg, NPR ignored the Lewinsky affair while Drudge was covering it.
Spin is unavoidable...the only variable is the extent & direction. And outright fabrications which serve a political agenda are rife, eg, MSNBC
claiming that one can buy fully automatic guns at gun shows with no background check. (I heard them say that last one personally.) You sure
have a lot of faith in the honesty, competence & integrity of government. I have a lot of experience seeing it betray those qualities.
And I believe that past is prologue.
Rakhel
Well-Known Member
I know nothing about what happened there.
Seemed to be a one day thing from what I was told.
I know a lot more about this movement because I am personally here. I have talked to them. I have been there down there(or I should say up there, as I am on Staten Island and they are in Manhattan) more than twice.
They only thing I see them giving up is heat. Oh and maybe clean water. The jury is still out on that. A health inspector came by and recommended that the park be closed due to unsanitary conditions. dirty water. dirty wash basins, trash, no water or bathing facilities....
I could go on.
Seemed to be a one day thing from what I was told.
I know a lot more about this movement because I am personally here. I have talked to them. I have been there down there(or I should say up there, as I am on Staten Island and they are in Manhattan) more than twice.
They only thing I see them giving up is heat. Oh and maybe clean water. The jury is still out on that. A health inspector came by and recommended that the park be closed due to unsanitary conditions. dirty water. dirty wash basins, trash, no water or bathing facilities....
I could go on.
Good article, Sunstone.
Media misrepresentation and pro status-quo propaganda's nothing new. Every progressive movement gets misrepresented - American independence, abolitionism, woman's sufferage, unionism -- it's only with the passage of time that they begin appearing in the history books as humanitarian idealists.
#1) I've been demonstrating since the '60s (yeah -- I'm one of those "old hippies" you've heard about). Almost always, if there's violence, it's the police that initiate it.
#2)Pampered kids? It's almost always the middle class that initiates reform. The poor usually join in only when things have pretty much gone to ****e. The poor are too low on the Maslovian scale to be idealistic. They're struggling just to feed themselves and pay the rent.
#4) America is supposed to be "of, for and by the people," it's supposed to be about "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." The constitution says government's supposed to "promote the general welfare and secure the blessings of liberty."
When someone defends these principles "against all enemies, foreign and domestic" (italics mine), I'd call them patriots.
#5) Just modern-day hippies!?
The hippies were the apex of humanity, "in form and function how noble and admirable." Through history it's the Hippies who advance justice, human welfare and happiness.
Just Hippies, indeed! :149:
#6)Don't know what they want? They know what they want! This country has a hundred serious malfunctions, so it should be no surprise to find demonstrators talking about their pet issues. As far as the crimes of the bankers and government collaborators, I think they're mostly of one mind.
#8) Pro/con Obama. I can see this, all right. most of them probably supported -- and support, Obama. They were hoping for a new Roosevelt or, at least, a Johnson. What we got was a pusillanimous pussyfooter, as Agnew would put it, who caved at every turn.
#9) As the primary focus is on the depredations of the Wall St. bankers, how is it an inappropriate venue? Washington is a wholly owned subsidiary of wall St. -- our government works for the corporations and bankers.
Besides, isn't there an Occupy Washington protest, as well?
Media misrepresentation and pro status-quo propaganda's nothing new. Every progressive movement gets misrepresented - American independence, abolitionism, woman's sufferage, unionism -- it's only with the passage of time that they begin appearing in the history books as humanitarian idealists.
#1) I've been demonstrating since the '60s (yeah -- I'm one of those "old hippies" you've heard about). Almost always, if there's violence, it's the police that initiate it.
#2)Pampered kids? It's almost always the middle class that initiates reform. The poor usually join in only when things have pretty much gone to ****e. The poor are too low on the Maslovian scale to be idealistic. They're struggling just to feed themselves and pay the rent.
#4) America is supposed to be "of, for and by the people," it's supposed to be about "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." The constitution says government's supposed to "promote the general welfare and secure the blessings of liberty."
When someone defends these principles "against all enemies, foreign and domestic" (italics mine), I'd call them patriots.
#5) Just modern-day hippies!?
The hippies were the apex of humanity, "in form and function how noble and admirable." Through history it's the Hippies who advance justice, human welfare and happiness.Just Hippies, indeed! :149:
#6)Don't know what they want? They know what they want! This country has a hundred serious malfunctions, so it should be no surprise to find demonstrators talking about their pet issues. As far as the crimes of the bankers and government collaborators, I think they're mostly of one mind.
#8) Pro/con Obama. I can see this, all right. most of them probably supported -- and support, Obama. They were hoping for a new Roosevelt or, at least, a Johnson. What we got was a pusillanimous pussyfooter, as Agnew would put it, who caved at every turn.
#9) As the primary focus is on the depredations of the Wall St. bankers, how is it an inappropriate venue? Washington is a wholly owned subsidiary of wall St. -- our government works for the corporations and bankers.
Besides, isn't there an Occupy Washington protest, as well?
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T-Dawg
Self-appointed Lunatic
Diversity isn't a good thing when you're dealing with matters of reality.
No, but the fact that she was unable to dismantle the NHS whereas the United States couldn't even get a similar program started says a lot about the two countries.
There's spin, but generally the facts should stay the same. It bothers me greatly, for example, that every side will give completely different information about the protests. The only course of action is for each individual to choose which set of facts complies most nicely with one's ideology (or, in my case, rely on the testimony of people who have actually been there, which of course could easily be biased in favor of the protests since people generally don't attend protests that they disagree with). Someone's lying, and the only way to find out who is to rely on other people who might be lying.
To use your example, you know that the claim about automatic guns is false presumably because a multitude of other sources told you it was (or maybe you went to a gun store and tested the claim yourself). Generally, there's a consensus on facts; if one source lies about something, we can tell because it contradicts numerous other sources (ie, if Fox labels a congressmen as a democrat and everyone else labels that congressman as a republican, including government sources, we know who to trust). We can't do that in the case of the protesters, because every source has some motivation to lie and there's little consensus on the truth.
If the government can't do that, it's failed to be the State. And if that happens (and it has), we have no hope but to form a better government. Hmm. Maybe that's an argument for having tiny city-states instead of a nation-wide governments; it seems that the farther away something is, the easier it is to lie about it.
doppelganger
Through the Looking Glass
That if you buy into the naive fantasy that policy is made in Washington. It's made on Wall Street.