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Everyone who loves is born of God

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
In interpreting the passage I think it should be realised that John is speaking to those who call themselves Christians about true Christianity and what it means and in this passage about where a Christian's love comes from.
If God is Love, and those who love are of God, does this mean that those who are not Christians by religious identification, are somehow loving from another Source? Which Source might that be?

There is another verse which comes to mind as well here. "Those who do the will of my Father are my brothers and sisters and mother". In other words, it has nothing to do with professions of faith, but everything to do with the fruits one bears which come from that source. And if those fruits are borne by anyone, they must of necessity come from that Source. Does Life come from a source other than God?

If they are bearing those fruits of the Spirit, then they are doing the will of God, in however they understand God to be intellectually, culturally, theologically, or religiously. Meaning, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Atheists, Religious Nones, Catholics, Christians, etc, who bear the fruits of the Spirit, those who love, are all "of God".

How can they not be, if God is the Source and they act according to "his" Will? "By their fruits you shall know them", Jesus instructed.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
That passage that was quoted does not speak of "used of God". Where are you getting that from? It says those who love, are of God. Meaning, they act from that source of Love, which is God.
I've heard it many times.
It's the same goofy nonstandard usage
 

Audie

Veteran Member
If God is Love, and those who love are of God, does this mean that those who are not Christians by religious identification, are somehow loving from another Source? Which Source might that be?

There is another verse which comes to mind as well here. "Those who do the will of my Father are my brothers and sisters and mother". In other words, it has nothing to do with professions of faith, but everything to do with the fruits one bears which come from that source. And if those fruits are borne by anyone, they must of necessity come from that Source. Does Life come from a source other than God?

If they are bearing those fruits of the Spirit, then they are doing the will of God, in however they understand God to be intellectually, culturally, theologically, or religiously. Meaning, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Atheists, Religious Nones, Catholics, Christians, etc, who bear the fruits of the Spirit, those who love, are all "of God".

How can they not be, if God is the Source and they act according to "his" Will? "By their fruits you shall know them", Jesus instructed.
Sermon
 

syo

Well-Known Member
Straight, gay, trans, black, white, religious, nonreligious, etc etc.
Ditch the judging, hate and racism.
They all know love

The bible says "Everyone who loves is born of God"

1 John 4:7-8

7: Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God
8: The one who does not love does not know God, because God is love
This sounds like a cult or something.
 

HeatherAnn

Active Member
To love is to strive for what is good & healthy for someone. It’s not based on denial.

Eg., An anorexic man may FEEL fat, when really he’s deathly skinny. Pretending he’s as he feels, rather than REALITY, is NOT loving.

Media has tried to twist minds - so people have warped ideas of love & actually harm others by their distorted attempts to “love” them.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Exactly. Perfect post. Thanks. I didn't know this Bible verse yet. No Christian will refute that

God Loves those who Repent and turn to God..
God does not loves those who stays in sin..
1 John 3:8-10,
8-"He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother"

Therefore God loves those who turns away from their sin..
Romans 1:26-27,
26--"For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was due"
Romans 1:32--"Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them"
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
If God is Love, and those who love are of God, does this mean that those who are not Christians by religious identification, are somehow loving from another Source? Which Source might that be?

There is another verse which comes to mind as well here. "Those who do the will of my Father are my brothers and sisters and mother". In other words, it has nothing to do with professions of faith, but everything to do with the fruits one bears which come from that source. And if those fruits are borne by anyone, they must of necessity come from that Source. Does Life come from a source other than God?

If they are bearing those fruits of the Spirit, then they are doing the will of God, in however they understand God to be intellectually, culturally, theologically, or religiously. Meaning, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Atheists, Religious Nones, Catholics, Christians, etc, who bear the fruits of the Spirit, those who love, are all "of God".

How can they not be, if God is the Source and they act according to "his" Will? "By their fruits you shall know them", Jesus instructed.

I know what you are saying and another passage comes to my mind also.
Romans 2:13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but it is the doers of the law who will be declared righteous. 14 Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 So they show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts either accusing or defending them…

Nevertheless I still think we need to be careful about interpretations of passages that were written initially for Christians. If we interpret those passages to include everyone then we can end up including everyone in things only meant for Christians.
I find it hard to understand John's epistles in general and figure that the background of the epistles is needed to get a proper interpretation.

1John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God
8: The one who does not love does not know God, because God is love

If this is for Christians only it could be saying the difference between true and false Christians. In that way we can avoid ending up believing that anyone can be born of God even if they are not a believer at all.
That is what I think anyway but am not saying that only Christians can be saved. IMO that judgement comes from Jesus, the one whom everyone must go through to reach the Father, and in passages such as Matt 25:31-40 it does look to me that those who have loved in their lives will be judged worthy of eternal life in the Kingdom and so will be born again then.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
True

Luckily here it's clear meaning
No wiggle room here

1) Love is God
2) Everyone who loves is born of God and knows God
Clear to believers perhaps,
but not to me, one without
this “God” frame of reference.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Amusing how often I know the Bible and the faith better than the " faithful" do.
In this case you seem to believe the Bible says something it never does. That phrase, "used of God", is not a Biblical term. It certainly wasn't used in the verse that you objected to at the outset. So, I wouldn't take too much pride on your knowledge here.

Now, do Christians use that phrase as some cliche'? Sure they do. I've heard it myself many times. I consider it one of those Christian buzz terms. "Oh she's so blessed! She's really used of God!". Not a fan of that sort of hype myself.

So anyway, I honestly don't understand what your initial objection was about. It certainly didn't have anything to do with anyone using that cliche of "being used of God". Like I said, seems you're just fighting some ghosts of your past or something, that's all.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
In this case you seem to believe the Bible says something it never does. That phrase, "used of God", is not a Biblical term. It certainly wasn't used in the verse that you objected to at the outset. So, I wouldn't take too much pride on your knowledge here.

Now, do Christians use that phrase as some cliche'? Sure they do. I've heard it myself many times. I consider it one of those Christian buzz terms. "Oh she's so blessed! She's really used of God!". Not a fan of that sort of hype myself.

So anyway, I honestly don't understand what your initial objection was about. It certainly didn't have anything to do with anyone using that cliche of "being used of God". Like I said, seems you're just fighting some ghosts of your past or something, that's all.
If you have to make up things about other people in order to concoct a post, maybe
youd do better to can it.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I know what you are saying and another passage comes to my mind also.
Romans 2:13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but it is the doers of the law who will be declared righteous. 14 Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 So they show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts either accusing or defending them…
Glad you brought this one forward. Another very good passage that comes to mind for me as well. Especially that recognition that the "law is written on their hearts," citing from Jeremiah.

Nevertheless I still think we need to be careful about interpretations of passages that were written initially for Christians. If we interpret those passages to include everyone then we can end up including everyone in things only meant for Christians.
Here's where I take these things. Who is a Christian? Someone in a religion? Or is it someone where the "law is written on their hearts", regardless of their knowledge of the Christian religion itself per se? I take Christian to mean one that follows the path or the way of Jesus, who live the law of love, or the true law of God? "Who is my brother, or sister of mother", in other words? Why those who follow the Father, whose "law is written on their hearts". Those are followers of the Christ, even if they've never heard of the Christian religion or Jesus of Nazareth by name. They are following the Spirit, which is Love.

And since Paul recognized that some Gentiles qualify as this, and that God is "not a respecter of persons", meaning your religion isn't what give you creds with God, but your heart does, then gentiles, who do naturally God's will, are more his children than those who lay claim to the kingdom of God through religious association. "I prayed the sinner's prayer, so I'm saved!". That's not what makes someone saved. Salvation is not a legal agreement on paper you take consolation from. Rather it's a lived, experiential reality.

I find it hard to understand John's epistles in general and figure that the background of the epistles is needed to get a proper interpretation.

1John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God
8: The one who does not love does not know God, because God is love

If this is for Christians only it could be saying the difference between true and false Christians. In that way we can avoid ending up believing that anyone can be born of God even if they are not a believer at all.
Yes of course it can point to true vs. false Christians. My favorite verse is where Jesus gives you the tools to discern, which so few seem to actually acknowledge. "By their fruits you shall know them". As I contrast by saying not by the beliefs, not by their doctrines, not by their claims of having the true interpretation of the Bible, or being the restored church, or by voting for 'family values', or by listening to Christian radio programs, or by their bumper stickers, or their church attendance, or their trumpets blaring as they make their prayers in public to be seen by others as their reward, etc.

"By their fruits you shall know them", is very simple. And by that standard, you can "know them" existing in other religions as well, these "children of the Father", be they Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Atheists, etc. Not by their beliefs, but by their fruits.

I realize that can seem wrong because Christians are taught that you need to make confessions of faith, proclaim Jesus in Lord, get baptized, say the Lord's prayer, and all of that in order to be "saved". But really, how does all of that square then with the recognition that Gentiles have the "law written on their hearts"? If that isn't salvation, if that isn't following God's will in the world, then what on earth is? It doesn't make sense.

I also like to add to this how Jesus said of the pagan Roman Centurion who asked for Jesus to heal his servant, "Greater faith have I not seen in all of Israel!". Jesus said a pagan, non-monotheist believer, had greater faith than anyone in all of Israel. And can we say, "Oh, but he still wasn't really saved because he hadn't become a Christian yet,"??? That's just pure legalism, IMHO.

That is what I think anyway but am not saying that only Christians can be saved. IMO that judgement comes from Jesus, the one whom everyone must go through to reach the Father, and in passages such as Matt 25:31-40 it does look to me that those who have loved in their lives will be judged worthy of eternal life in the Kingdom and so will be born again then.
I understand this way of thinking, a certain Universalist perspective that eventually everyone will become saved by Jesus, in the afterlife for instance. But I think that's just trying to fit something that is otherwise radical into a certain theology about salvation through religious affiliation. I'd argue they are fully in God's grace, walking with God in Spirit, "born again", saved, or whatever term you wish to use, right now, right where they are at, wherever they are at. They are found in all religions, or in none. "By their fruit you shall know them".

I know that is a radical understanding. But I believe that is what Jesus saw these things, and how God sees at all times. "God is no respecter of persons".

Thoughts?
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
If you have to make up things about other people in order to concoct a post, maybe
youd do better to can it.
That was my exact thoughts about your original post. Making things up in order to concoct a post to fight your ghosts. :) Go back and look at the history. It's easy to do.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
God Loves those who Repent and turn to God..
God does not loves those who stays in sin..
1 John 3:8-10,
8-"He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother"

Therefore God loves those who turns away from their sin..
Romans 1:26-27,
26--"For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was due"
Romans 1:32--"Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them"
The 2 Great Commandment Trump all your verses
 

InChrist

Free4ever
Straight, gay, trans, black, white, religious, nonreligious, etc etc.
Ditch the judging, hate and racism.
They all know love

The bible says "Everyone who loves is born of God"

1 John 4:7-8

7: Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God
8: The one who does not love does not know God, because God is love
Of course hate and racism is unloving, but I think neglecting truth is, also.


“Forgotten is the first duty of love: to speak the truth (Ephesians 4:15). Real love does not flatter or soothe when correction is needed but points out the error which is blinding and harming the loved one. Christ said, "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten; be zealous, therefore, and repent" (Revelation 3:19). Instead, the idea is now current that love excludes rebuke, ignores the truth, and seeks unity at any price. Only disaster can result.”
Dave Hunt
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
True

Luckily here it's clear meaning
No wiggle room here

1) Love is God
2) Everyone who loves is born of God and knows God

Clear to believers perhaps,
but not to me, one without
this “God” frame of reference.
I took God out of the equation in my quote, because I replied to you. I hope the green clarifies it better

1) Love is God
2) Everyone who loves is born of God and knows God

Equals

2) Everyone who loves is born of Love and knows Love
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
Glad you brought this one forward. Another very good passage that comes to mind for me as well. Especially that recognition that the "law is written on their hearts," citing from Jeremiah.


Here's where I take these things. Who is a Christian? Someone in a religion? Or is it someone where the "law is written on their hearts", regardless of their knowledge of the Christian religion itself per se? I take Christian to mean one that follows the path or the way of Jesus, who live the law of love, or the true law of God? "Who is my brother, or sister of mother", in other words? Why those who follow the Father, whose "law is written on their hearts". Those are followers of the Christ, even if they've never heard of the Christian religion or Jesus of Nazareth by name. They are following the Spirit, which is Love.

And since Paul recognized that some Gentiles qualify as this, and that God is "not a respecter of persons", meaning your religion isn't what give you creds with God, but your heart does, then gentiles, who do naturally God's will, are more his children than those who lay claim to the kingdom of God through religious association. "I prayed the sinner's prayer, so I'm saved!". That's not what makes someone saved. Salvation is not a legal agreement on paper you take consolation from. Rather it's a lived, experiential reality.


Yes of course it can point to true vs. false Christians. My favorite verse is where Jesus gives you the tools to discern, which so few seem to actually acknowledge. "By their fruits you shall know them". As I contrast by saying not by the beliefs, not by their doctrines, not by their claims of having the true interpretation of the Bible, or being the restored church, or by voting for 'family values', or by listening to Christian radio programs, or by their bumper stickers, or their church attendance, or their trumpets blaring as they make their prayers in public to be seen by others as their reward, etc.

"By their fruits you shall know them", is very simple. And by that standard, you can "know them" existing in other religions as well, these "children of the Father", be they Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Atheists, etc. Not by their beliefs, but by their fruits.

I realize that can seem wrong because Christians are taught that you need to make confessions of faith, proclaim Jesus in Lord, get baptized, say the Lord's prayer, and all of that in order to be "saved". But really, how does all of that square then with the recognition that Gentiles have the "law written on their hearts"? If that isn't salvation, if that isn't following God's will in the world, then what on earth is? It doesn't make sense.

I also like to add to this how Jesus said of the pagan Roman Centurion who asked for Jesus to heal his servant, "Greater faith have I not seen in all of Israel!". Jesus said a pagan, non-monotheist believer, had greater faith than anyone in all of Israel. And can we say, "Oh, but he still wasn't really saved because he hadn't become a Christian yet,"??? That's just pure legalism, IMHO.


I understand this way of thinking, a certain Universalist perspective that eventually everyone will become saved by Jesus, in the afterlife for instance. But I think that's just trying to fit something that is otherwise radical into a certain theology about salvation through religious affiliation. I'd argue they are fully in God's grace, walking with God in Spirit, "born again", saved, or whatever term you wish to use, right now, right where they are at, wherever they are at. They are found in all religions, or in none. "By their fruit you shall know them".

I know that is a radical understanding. But I believe that is what Jesus saw these things, and how God sees at all times. "God is no respecter of persons".

Thoughts?

I'm not a Universalist but also realise that I cannot judge who will be saved and who not saved.
I have the idea that the Spirit has been poured out on all flesh, but with Christians the Spirit is what begets us and gives us fellowship with God so that we get to know the Father and the Son but with unbelievers the Spirit is reaching out to bring people to Jesus and to give wisdom so that people act according to God's will.
There are doctrines in Christianity which are prevalent but which I disagree with but do not really know enough to say yay or nay to for sure. They are hopes I have which are based on scripture but certainly cannot stand up and want to form another denomination over or anything like that. There seem to be scriptures which point in other directions so it is a good idea to have some humility about it all.
 
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