Ever Notice

[Earthling]

If you read the Quran you can't help but come away from it with the opinion that it is a violent book. Kill the heretic, kill the infidel, kill the blasphemer. But generally speaking Muslims seem to me to be a peaceful group of people. Oh, sure, there are a relatively few that react poorly to having their countries, cities, towns, farms, and homes destroyed, and their innocent men, women, children and elderly savagely murdered for no apparent reason, but in general they are a peaceable people.

If you read the Bible on the other hand you probably come away from it with the opinion that, though there are wars among the believers and unbelievers its somewhat a contrast to the Quran in that it is more peaceful but the Christians and Jews are notoriously violent comparatively speaking.

Am I right?

 

[Cacotopia]

No they are both full of horrible human behavior.

 

[Earthling]

No they are both full of horrible human behavior.

That's true, but comparatively speaking . . . I guess what it comes down to is that the Quran is more violent than the Bible, but Muslims, and I guess I should stipulate Muslims in modern times, have more reason to be violent than Christians and yet the opposite seems to be the case.

I guess it's debatable and probably having more to do with a sort of knee jerk reaction of a personal nature, maybe having to do with shame, embarrassment and loathing for specifically the injustices I've seen unfold in the world on the part of "Christendom" since the early 1990's first gulf war.

 

[Cacotopia]

yes then the quran is a little more violent than the bible. How you think the old testament 2.0 would read? If Jesus, "let's like love everyone myaaan." didn't come you think there would be another book or an extension of the old testament?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If you read the Bible on the other hand you probably come away from it with the opinion that, though there are wars among the believers and unbelievers its somewhat a contrast to the Quran in that it is more peaceful but the Christians and Jews are notoriously violent comparatively speaking.

I read the Bible, and I have the same feelings that I do with the Koran, that it is extremely violent and repressive, bloody and viscous, entirely unsuitable for the basis of any system of ethics and morality. The Bible, and Koran, condemn me to death over a few things - apostasy being a reason both of them say it is required that I be put to death.
The freedoms and liberties we cherish and treasure the most are fundamentally incompatible with Judaeo-Christian-Sharia laws. Their books should relegated to the annals of history and our collective moral compass updated so "thou shalt not kill" truly and actually means no killing anyone under any circumstances, even if they decided to abandon god, **** someone who is married, is a rebellious child, or the other reasons those religions give for excuses to kill someone.

 

[SomeRandom]

I dunno. I have noticed that most of the religions on earth which teach peace (ostensibly practically all of them) are always at the heart of many violent issues occurring in the world. If religion is about the pursuit of God or spiritual enlightenment or what have you, why is it that it seemingly tears the world apart?
Sure many adherents of all faiths probably just wish to live peacefully and go about their business. But there's always that one guy taking things too far.

 

[Estro Felino]

 

[Frog]

But generally speaking Muslims seem to me to be a peaceful group of people.

Oh course they are peaceful in there own lands when every believer amongst themselves are Islamic. When mixed with other people it can get violent.

 

[Earthling]

yes then the quran is a little more violent than the bible. How you think the old testament 2.0 would read? If Jesus, "let's like love everyone myaaan." didn't come you think there would be another book or an extension of the old testament?

Well, strictly speaking the term Old Testament and New Testament are misnomers based on the Latin translation of the word covenant. There isn't any such thing as a new testament or old testament. But I know what you are getting at. Most people, for some reason I don't understand, see the so called OT as more violent than the so called NT, but the book of Revelation is far more violent than anything in the OT. Like I've said here before, the founding of Israel was naturally more violent than the spreading of the gospel.

 

[Earthling]

I read the Bible, and I have the same feelings that I do with the Koran, that it is extremely violent and repressive, bloody and viscous, entirely unsuitable for the basis of any system of ethics and morality.

Just as an point of interest or curiosity would you say the music, film and art you enjoy are violent in nature? See, to me, ethics and morality are subjective. Dependent upon your location and position in the stream of time. Though of course there are similarities.

The Bible, and Koran, condemn me to death over a few things - apostasy being a reason both of them say it is required that I be put to death.

Oh, well . . . hell, who doesn't that apply to? Sin equals death and we all sin. Of course, you do realize that the law of Moses applied strictly speaking only to the ancient Israelite? (Jeremiah 31:31-34 / Hebrews 8:7-13)

The freedoms and liberties we cherish and treasure the most are [...]

Either made up or based upon Judaeo-Christian laws.

[...] fundamentally incompatible with Judaeo-Christian-Sharia laws. Their books should relegated to the annals of history and our collective moral compass updated so "thou shalt not kill" truly and actually means no killing anyone under any circumstances, even if they decided to abandon god, **** someone who is married, is a rebellious child, or the other reasons those religions give for excuses to kill someone.

I think they have been relegated to history, but our collective moral compass isn't that different than it was when they wrote those books. I think that people are always going to kill one another while they are under their own sense of morality. For shoes, for religion, for love, for art, for music, out of stupidity, for greed, for lust, for social, cultural, political, religious, racial, ethical, moral and countless other reasons.

 

[Earthling]

I dunno. I have noticed that most of the religions on earth which teach peace (ostensibly practically all of them) are always at the heart of many violent issues occurring in the world. If religion is about the pursuit of God or spiritual enlightenment or what have you, why is it that it seemingly tears the world apart?
Sure many adherents of all faiths probably just wish to live peacefully and go about their business. But there's always that one guy taking things too far.

Do you think that it could possibly be that religion has often been the tool of the political and at least a great deal of the violence attributed to religion has actually been political in nature?

 

[siti]

...our collective moral compass isn't that different than it was when they wrote those books.

It isn't? Then why does hardly anyone these days feel any moral compunction at the idea of eating shellfish, wearing garments of mixed fibres, collecting firewood on the sabbath, chomping on a pork chop, not marrying a deceased brother's widow...?

I would suggest our collective moral compass has changed significantly and very soon it will also accord the same moral status to gay couples as hetero couples and - even better, but much more unrealistically optimistic - to the conscientious objector as to the warrior. Those will be the markers of a collective moral maturity - and the religion that champions these goals will be a religion for the future. Islam and Christianity are not it - unless they change radically and morally.

 

[Earthling]

Oh course they are peaceful in there own lands when every believer amongst themselves are Islamic. When mixed with other people it can get violent.

Again, not as much as the Judaeo-Christian. IMO. Keep in mind, this isn't something I've studied the history of or even pay that much attention to even in current events. People kill one another at nearly anyone's beck and call, they're ****ing idiots, generally speaking, so, from my own personal perspective, it's like, "Go ahead and kill one another, morons, if that's what you want to do."

I'm just saying. I think its a creepy sort of sudden realization I had recently about Western culture. Creepy like Alex Jones' laugh . . .

Edit: I'm sorry, I put the wrong video up again. This is the one I meant to put up.

 

[Frog]

Again, not as much as the Judaeo-Christian. IMO. Keep in mind, this isn't something I've studied the history of or even pay that much attention to even in current events. People kill one another at nearly anyone's beck and call, they're ****ing idiots, generally speaking, so, from my own personal perspective, it's like, "Go ahead and kill one another, morons, if that's what you want to do."

I'm just saying. I think its a creepy sort of sudden realization I had recently about Western culture. Creepy like Alex Jones' laugh . . .

I cant stand listening secular talk after his rant about that school and "In god we trust" plaques

Yes people are violent animals. I am no sure if letting swarms of immigrants into Europe would be safe for both citizen or migrant. The rapes and murder of people and children committed by migrants alone is terrible consequence.

 

[Earthling]

It isn't? Then why does hardly anyone these days feel any moral compunction at the idea of eating shellfish, wearing garments of mixed fibres, collecting firewood on the sabbath, chomping on a pork chop, not marrying a deceased brother's widow...?

I think you are confusing law with morality. It's against the law to exceed the speed limit but is it immoral? The Laws of Moses of which you speak weren't expected to be upheld, and there are all sorts of extremes you can follow that to. For example, the sabbath. They weren't going to be punished for exerting themselves in order to save a beast of burden from being trapped in a ravine, much less from saving their family from being burned alive in a house fire. They tended to take that to the opposite extreme as well, like washing up to the elbows before every meal.

I would suggest our collective moral compass has changed significantly and very soon it will also accord the same moral status to gay couples as hetero couples and - even better, but much more unrealistically optimistic - to the conscientious objector as to the warrior. Those will be the markers of a collective moral maturity - and the religion that champions these goals will be a religion for the future. Islam and Christianity are not it - unless they change radically and morally.

Nonsense. This is a quixotic and uninformed cultural projection and not a very thoughtful one because we are talking about the morality of mankind not the laws of ancient Israel.

50 years ago homosexuality was considered immoral and illegal in most places, even the land of the free and the brave. Not so much any more, but is that progress? In the lands surrounding ancient Israel homosexuality was rampant. Morally acceptable. So was pederasty. Are we going to accept pederasty as we morally evolve into this Utopian society?

 

[siti]

This is a quixotic and uninformed cultural projection and not a very thoughtful one

For a minute there I thought you were disagreeing with me, then I realized this was an introduction to your next paragraph:

50 years ago homosexuality was considered immoral and illegal in most places, even the land of the free and the brave. Not so much any more, but is that progress? In the lands surrounding ancient Israel homosexuality was rampant. Morally acceptable. So was pederasty.

Which truly is uninformed and not very thoughtful. Are you seriously equating my comments about gay marriage with pederasty? Or even promiscuity - which is presumably what you mean by "rampant". Good grief - you are a very confused individual!

 

[lukethethird]

If you read the Quran you can't help but come away from it with the opinion that it is a violent book. Kill the heretic, kill the infidel, kill the blasphemer. But generally speaking Muslims seem to me to be a peaceful group of people. Oh, sure, there are a relatively few that react poorly to having their countries, cities, towns, farms, and homes destroyed, and their innocent men, women, children and elderly savagely murdered for no apparent reason, but in general they are a peaceable people.

If you read the Bible on the other hand you probably come away from it with the opinion that, though there are wars among the believers and unbelievers its somewhat a contrast to the Quran in that it is more peaceful but the Christians and Jews are notoriously violent comparatively speaking.

Am I right?

No, never noticed.

 

[Earthling]

For a minute there I thought you were disagreeing with me, then I realized this was an introduction to your next paragraph:

Which truly is uninformed and not very thoughtful. Are you seriously equating my comments about gay marriage with pederasty? Good grief - you are a very confused individual!

I'm so glad you caught that. And yes I am, because you are not thinking about it. Think about it . . .

1. in ancient lands around the writers of the Bible pederasty and catamites were morally acceptable. Common. Accepted. As was homosexuality.

2. Both of them were considered illegal and immoral by the Bible writers.

3. Homosexuality was illegal and immoral 50 years ago in America.

So how would you argue that homosexuality should be acceptable and pederasty shouldn't? Keep in mind, 50 years ago you would have thought homosexuality was immoral and 4,000 years ago you wouldn't have thought so unless you adhered to the laws of Moses..

 

[sun rise]

The most violent holy book to me is the Mahabharata where Avatar Krishna tells Arjuna that he must slaughter his relatives. Mahabharata - Wikipedia is one reference which states

Before the battle, Arjuna noticing that the opposing army includes his own kith and kin, including his great grandfather Bhishma and his teacher Drona, has grave doubts about the fight and falls into despair.At this time,Krishna reminds him of duty as a Kshatriya to fight for his just cause in the famous Bhagavad Gita section of the epic.

Though initially sticking to chivalrous notions of warfare, both sides soon adopt dishonourable tactics. At the end of the 18-day battle, only the Pandavas, Satyaki, Kripa, Ashwatthama, Kritavarma, Yuyutsu and Krishna survive.

 

[Earthling]

Sort of dealing with the 'duh factor'. Like when I say I'm not baptized.

Duhh?

"Do you think rogger is worshipping something evil? I cant tell, with all the pentagrams, and the goat skull shrine, in the closet".


Thats just an analogy, nothing with a goat skull shrine. Bad analogy.

I have no idea what the hell you are talking about but damn! I liked your Brian Warner avatar MUCH better.