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ever encountered a cult?

Eddi

Agnostic
Premium Member
Has anyone here been in a cult, or had any encounters with a cult? Or known someone who has?

If so, please tell your story!

I would like this thread to be about peoples experiences of cults, not about cults themselves, which is a big topic

I have a friend who is in a South Korean cult known is The World Mission Society Church of God. They have coached him to dazzle people with biblical gymnastics with the aim of getting them to join their church by being baptised by one of their pastors. He is good at it and comes over as very convincing. He is totally committed to this church and is very keen to transmit his faith to others. They got to him when he was down and vulnerable. It's quite sad really.

There are just under two million of them. They believe that an elderly woman who lives in South Korea and was born in 1943 is “Mother God” incarnate. And they believe that her husband (who died in 1986) was the second coming of Jesus, which of course violates everything the bible says about the return of Jesus.

But then these people are not interested in Jesus and neither are they interested in the bible.

They believe in two gods – male and female. Give them a chance, and they will show you how they think this is the true message of the bible.

I own two books that have been written to refute their bizarre and baseless beliefs which are supposedly biblical. I have read both and am now impervious to the influence of the WMSCOG missionaries. There are numerous YouTube videos dealing with these people too.

They can come at me with everything they've got but I will never join them. My spiritual armour has a new layer.

Basically, these books and YouTube videos amount to apologetics. And I found them to be entirely convincing. They totally demolished the WMSCOG.

These are the books:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Our-Mother-Who-Art-Heaven/dp/0997332107/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3BBMYNL7CGJCH&keywords=our+mother+who+art+not+in+heaven&qid=1674147421&sprefix=our+mother+who+art+not+in+heaven,aps,82&sr=8-1

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/150271602X/ref=pe_27063361_487055811_TE_dp_1

I have embedded some videos about this at the bottom of this original post.

The author of one of these books gave some advice as to how to deal with members of this cult when they’re out proselyting. Well, both authors did, but I’m going to go into just one of them.

Basically: ignore all the nutty and fallacious trimmings – their more minor idiosyncratic claims and practices. Which are many. And instead focus on two big things: Who and what is God? And then the nature of Salvation. If you defend the biblical view of who and what is God and how Salvation works and stick to these then their whole thing falls apart. As it is based on an incorrect (to put it mildly) use of the bible.

They don't get things out of the bible, they put things into it. It's not honest. I'm pretty sure the higher-ups in it know exactly what they're doing, even if the lower-downs are totally enchanted and enthralled by it all.

On three occasions I attended the services of this group at a facility located in a nearby city. They are in control of a building that used to be a factory, and that contains a light and spacious space which they have turned into a church.

In their church the women sat on one side of the central aisle and the men on the other. The women wore small veils on their heads. I asked my friend why this was the case and he whipped out his copy of the bible and gave a chapter and verse that required this.

He has been totally brainwashed. He has memorised loads of scripture that he uses to justify his cult and draw others in towards it. I think he is too slick for his own good, it's all too much.

One of the times I attended I was wearing my usual eye glasses so I could fully see things. They were the type of glasses that automatically become shades when the sun shines on them, forcing them to go dark. For some reason their pastor asked me to remove them! Perhaps he was concerned because he thought they’d be a barrier and block out his psychic mind-control beams?

There was a lot of pressure for me to let them baptise me and become one of them. Once, they took me to a quite little room all by myself and showed me some promotional videos, of well-dressed, mindlessly smiling devotees proudly posing in front of their churches or with Heavenly Mother. They then went through the bible with me, constructing tenuous arguments for outrageous and wrong beliefs. They’d refer to a big book of evidence, which they drew on to make sense of what some of the verses they used supposedly meant.

This went on for over half an hour until they had exhausted all their means.

They kept coming at me with various things, in various ways, trying to get me to submit to being baptised by them. I wasn’t having any of it. I deflected all their advances. It was a glorious and empowering experience. Their best efforts were wasted on me. They came at me from all angles but I never gave in.

What they’d do is, they’d find connections between certain verses, which they would then arrange in such a manner to supposedly lead to certain conclusions, that once reached would necessitate becoming one of them. The whole thing was an enormous sales-pitch.

I was effectively being sold membership of their church.

It was more an attempted indoctrination!

They had very nice food though. And they clearly practiced “love bombing” which is a common tactic of cults. Everyone was so smiley that it was sickening They were also super proud of all their community and charity work, boasting of their contributions to the common good by displaying various certificates of appreciation all over their walls. As though good works save.

I dismiss the claims of the WMSCOG. They are dead wrong about the nature of God and they are dead wrong about Salvation. Their beliefs are therefore false. They are unbiblical. It is therefore entirely reasonable (and prudent) to completely dismiss them and their claims. And to walk away from them entirely.

My advice to anyone encountering one of their missionaries is to politely run away.

There is a system of telling whether or not a movement is Christian by applying four tests: The addition test, the subtraction test, the multiplication test, and the division test.

And the thing is, they claim to be Christian, indeed they claim to be the only authentic Christians who exist!
  • Does it add things to scripture?
  • Does it subtract from the divinity of Christ?
  • Does it multiply the requirements to salvation?
  • Does it divide peoples interests between Christ and someone else?
They add to scripture as they bend it and abuse it to support their claims. They try and make it say things that it doesn’t say. They add to it in that sense. They add an erroneous reading to it.

They subtract from the divinity of Christ, by saying that a (now dead) human is in fact Jesus. Which in my mind makes a mockery of Christ. They say a normal dead person (who is not divine) is Christ. Which would make Christ not divine. Which is a completely un-Christian belief.

They multiply the requirements for salvation. With the WMSCOG to be saved one must undergo an annual celebration of the Passover and believe in Heavenly Mother.

And they divide peoples loyalties between Jesus and Heavenly Mother and the church leadership (their chief priest is known as The Pastor General and he seems to be in charge)

It is therefore not Christian.

And is in many ways a cult.

(And yes, a thing can be something other than either a Christian church or a cult......)

That’s the experience I’ve had with a cult

Has anyone here ever had anything to do with a cult, or have known someone who has?

How'd you get in? And how did you get out?

I'm fortunate as I didn't let them suck me in. But they almost sucked a friend of mine in. But he's OK now, thankfully.

Here are some videos about them:

 
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Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
I find the word "cult" to generally lack rigor in its definition, but let's say we go by this definition:

1 cult
/ˈkʌlt/
noun

plural cults
[count]
1
: a small religious group that is not part of a larger and more accepted religion and that has beliefs regarded by many people as extreme or dangerous
[+] Example sentences
2
: a situation in which people admire and care about something or someone very much or too much
[+] Example sentences

Cult Definition & Meaning | Britannica Dictionary

In that case, I would consider quite a few popular religious sects and denominations, especially some under the umbrella of Abrahamic religions, to comfortably fit the definition—save for the possibly arbitrary appeal to popularity inherent in defining a "cult" as necessarily not being a part of a "larger and more accepted religion." And yes, I have known a lot of people holding beliefs I would consider dangerous, cultlike, and unquestioning.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
The way the topic of cults is handled in my culture is... unfortunate. Unfortunate because it leads to many misconceptions that blind us to the broader pervasiveness of cult or cult-like social structures. This in turn makes us more vulnerable to becoming entrapped in such social structures without realizing it, because we were taught cults only look a particular way.

I had this happen.

Things I was taught about cults prevented me from recognizing this group was operating on the spectrum. It was only after I got out, and someone who was wiser than myself made an offhanded comment that the group sounded pretty cult-like, that I educated myself. I learned cults didn't necessarily have anything to do with religion and where characterized by particular social dynamics and social structures. Boy, it'd have been nice to know that before my life was almost ended by one.

Taking a broader view, though, "cult" has such a wide spectrum of meaning it's a problematic term to use just in general. It can mean anything from the incredibly benign if not benevolent traditions of polytheistic worship for a specific god to insular social groups that harm their adherents with behavioral restrictions and emotional blackmailing.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
They add to scripture as they bend it and abuse it to support their claims. They try and make it say things that it doesn’t say. They add to it in that sense. They add an erroneous reading to it.

I'm not sure this is a fair criterion for a "cult." Naturally, different people will have different readings of scripture, and many will disagree with each other on what is "true Christianity" or "erroneous reading." This is an age-old feature of religion and philosophy in general.

I also find it interesting that Mike Winger, a priest who has promulgated rhetoric against homosexuality and reproductive rights (he wrote a long post supporting the reversal of Roe v. Wade and equating abortion with murder, for example), is so assuredly condemning another group of people as a "cult." I suppose we are to believe that measurably harmful, theocratically minded beliefs like his are superior, then? So much for "judge not, lest ye be judged."
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Taking a broader view, though, "cult" has such a wide spectrum of meaning it's a problematic term to use just in general. It can mean anything from the incredibly benign if not benevolent traditions of polytheistic worship for a specific god to insular social groups that harm their adherents with behavioral restrictions and emotional blackmailing.

This times a million. The term is way too loose and ill-defined to function properly considering its deeply condemning nature.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
It would mean that they are not really Christian when they say they are, which makes them dishonest

They have appropriated Christian scripture for their own ends

That's always been a matter of interpretation and opinion. The centuries of animosity between Catholic and Protestant authorities are a perfect example.
 

Eddi

Agnostic
Premium Member
That's always been a matter of interpretation and opinion. The centuries of animosity between Catholic and Protestant authorities are a perfect example.
They claim that there are two gods. Nothing wrong with that......

Except they claim this is biblical......

It is in no way biblical. They are being dishonest.

Calling this "a matter of interpretation" is an enormous understatement to say the least

Their use of the bible constitutes an outrageous and self-serving appropriation of a sacred text
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
They claim that there are two gods. Nothing wrong with that......

Except they claim this is biblical......

It is in no way biblical. They are being dishonest.

Calling this "a matter of interpretation" is an enormous understatement to say the least

Their use of the bible constitutes an outrageous and self-serving appropriation of a sacred text

You're entitled to that opinion, but keep in mind that people have made similar arguments against all sorts of different interpretations about issues ranging from divorce and homosexuality to the Trinity and date of Christmas.
 
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Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I find the word "cult" to generally lack rigor in its definition, but let's say we go by this definition:



Cult Definition & Meaning | Britannica Dictionary

In that case, I would consider quite a few popular religious sects and denominations, especially some under the umbrella of Abrahamic religions, to comfortably fit the definition—save for the possibly arbitrary appeal to popularity inherent in defining a "cult" as necessarily not being a part of a "larger and more accepted religion." And yes, I have known a lot of people holding beliefs I would consider dangerous, cultlike, and unquestioning.
I do think the focus small and unorganized itself is harmful as it allows dangerous sects to fly unscrutinized. Televangelists are probably the easiest example there is. So many of them are predatory, exploitative, and hit all the points of a cult. But it's Christianity and religion they say, leaving few adequately concerned with the damage these con men do.
The denomination I grew up in (Southern Baptist/ Evangelical), it checks off the criteria left and right but it doesn't get recognized as a cult. Instead, it's been protected and dismissed on the grounds of freedom of religion and now this poisonous cult is getting ahead in US politics.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Back in high school I was on the newspaper staff. One year there were rumors going around about a cult coming to town and we all should be vigilant. I was skeptical of religion and really interested in it as a social phenomenon, so I asked my advisor if I could write a story about this. I got the go ahead. The name of the cult was The Way, International. I heard rumors and didn't have anything solid in the way of facts, as there was no internet back then. So I interviewed area ministers about this new church in town to get a sense of their impressions. I ended up getting the name and address of the guy who was the local Way advocate.

So I went by his house and asked if he wanted to be interviewed for the story and he was very excited about it, which kinda caught me off guard. He was not aware of the negative attitude he and his church had around town. We were sitting in his living room and his wife walked in and he was so happy I was writing this story, almost boasting about it, which I found odd. His wife didn't seem to care, almost like she is annoyed with her husband.

He was a typical evangelical type of pastor, very inviting and happy, to a degree that it seemed like a performance, and not genuine. So he and I talked for about 10 minutes and then his daughter arrived home, and I recognized her from high school, and she recognized me. She was frozen in the doorway. The father went into the other room for some information and the girl lost it. She started crying and saying that she's going to be exposed at school and will be humiliated. No one knew her dad was the cult leader, and now she was freaking out. She'd heard all the talk around school, and now who knows what will happen to her. Wow, that was nuts.

I left and the next day I talked to my advisor about what happened, and she said we can't run the story. I understood. Over time the "threat" of the cult diminished and the girl told people it was her dad. I think she was OK. I was stunned that here was a guy so absorbed in his religious faith that he was oblivious to what was happening with his daughter.

The whole time I was concerned about getting *zapped* and getting trapped in a cult. I heard all sorts of stories about cults getting control of your mind and you lose agency. My experience taught me that I ask too many questions to get drawn into dogma and a cult. That takes a certain set of psychological circumstances that makes a person vulnerable.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
I do think the focus small and unorganized itself is harmful as it allows dangerous sects to fly unscrutinized. Televangelists are probably the easiest example there is. So many of them are predatory, exploitative, and hit all the points of a cult. But it's Christianity and religion they say, leaving few adequately concerned with the damage these con men do.
The denomination I grew up in (Southern Baptist/ Evangelical), it checks off the criteria left and right but it doesn't get recognized as a cult. Instead, it's been protected and dismissed on the grounds of freedom of religion and now this poisonous cult is getting ahead in US politics.

I can't think of a set of ideologies more dangerous than ones influencing large groups of people to steadfastly work to restrict freedoms and rights in the name of their god or some other object of reverence, yet we're apparently supposed to only look at the smaller groups that usually have little to no legal impact on our lives as the most dangerous. No, that doesn't seem consistent or reasonable in the slightest.
 

Exaltist Ethan

Bridging the Gap Between Believers and Skeptics
I looked into the acronym "WMSCOG" on Google and researched this "cult" for myself. Doesn't seem to be that much different from the LDS or JWs. Both the LDS and JWs have talked to me and tried to sway me to their side. My best friend, @dannerz is LDS and has encouraged me to visit a LDS ward for myself. I contacted some LDS missionaries and they totally blew me off after awhile!

I just don't get the sense that when people call a religion a "cult" that it is actually a cult 90% of the time. If LDS was a cult, they would have tried a lot harder to proselytize and forced me to become a member of their church. WMSCOG seems in the same vein as the LDS church, if not, even less hands on than them. I'm not convinced they are a cult because of your "addition, subtraction, multiplication and division" formula you devised for yourself, @Eddi .

The same friend, Dan, that is a member of the LDS church, doesn't even pay tithe, drinks green tea and associates himself with other religions, including JWs. That doesn't sound like a cult to me. Most people in most "cults" are able to live their life the way they want. Sometimes JW can be cult-like at times. But when I really think of a cult, I think of something similar to the Amish or Hutterites.

I wish the LDS was even more "cult" like because then at least I'd have a ride to be taken to their ward one Sunday. Having a community care and value you doesn't make them a cult. Everybody is so hands off now days. I don't like that.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
My experience taught me that I ask too many questions to get drawn into dogma and a cult. That takes a certain set of psychological circumstances that makes a person vulnerable.
Says everyone sucked into a cult, scammed and duped.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I looked into the acronym "WMSCOG" on Google and researched this "cult" for myself. Doesn't seem to be that much different from the LDS or JWs. Both the LDS and JWs have talked to me and tried to sway me to their side. My best friend, @dannerz is LDS and has encouraged me to visit a LDS ward for myself. I contacted some LDS missionaries and they totally blew me off after awhile!

I just don't get the sense that when people call a religion a "cult" that it is actually a cult 90% of the time. If LDS was a cult, they would have tried a lot harder to proselytize and forced me to become a member of their church. WMSCOG seems in the same vein as the LDS church, if not, even less hands on than them. I'm not convinced they are a cult because of your "addition, subtraction, multiplication and division" formula you devised for yourself, @Eddi .

The same friend, Dan, that is a member of the LDS church, doesn't even pay tithe, drinks green tea and associates himself with other religions, including JWs. That doesn't sound like a cult to me. Most people in most "cults" are able to live their life the way they want. Sometimes JW can be cult-like at times. But when I really think of a cult, I think of something similar to the Amish or Hutterites.

I wish the LDS was even more "cult" like because then at least I'd have a ride to be taken to their ward one Sunday. Having a community care and value you doesn't make them a cult. Everybody is so hands off now days. I don't like that.
The way the LDS church has destroyed families (such as when a child is gay), and their refusal to acknowledge the offense caused by proxy baltism amd refusal to abide by cease and desist orders, they too should be regarded as a cult. But if you accept special underwear you probably aren't going to question the cultish nature of things that spring up.
 

Aštra’el

Aštara, Blade of Aštoreth
I do not understand this laughable fear and paranoia of so-called “cults”. I have always found them deeply fascinating.
 

Exaltist Ethan

Bridging the Gap Between Believers and Skeptics
The way the LDS church has destroyed families (such as when a child is gay), and their refusal to acknowledge the offense caused by proxy baltism amd refusal to abide by cease and desist orders, they too should be regarded as a cult. But if you accept special underwear you probably aren't going to question the cultish nature of things that spring up.

Once I was talking to a LDS missionary and I told him his religion was a "cult". I don't really believe that, but it gets them to shut up about their beliefs really quick. Yes, I get it, LDS and JW both shun people who don't think like them. But my friend, @dannerz , has had all the autonomy he wanted to have and still associates with both religions. He's even a baptized member of the LDS church. For all the bad these religions do, people forget that people will be people and do whatever they want, especially if what they are doing isn't hurting themselves or other people.
 
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