Even in Europe the truth about Trump is out in bold print

[Altfish]

I don

0ooh, them sour grapes!


I think that's the difference between a Republic and a Democracy. In a Republic, such as the United States, only elected officials and their appointees make the decisions, hence the need for an "electoral college".

In a Democracy, or in a hybrid of one like the UK, things are different.

't think that is anything to do with the difference between a democracy and a republic. I do stand to be corrected though.
Your system is worse than ours (The Presidential system that is) and ours is bad.
Take California, ok Hilary won almost 2/3rds last time but she got all 55 representatives, so the 30+ % that voted Trump are not represented. Why don't they dish out the seats in proportion to the votes gained?

 

[metis]

I don

't think that is anything to do with the difference between a democracy and a republic. I do stand to be corrected though.
Your system is worse than ours (The Presidential system that is) and ours is bad.
Take California, ok Hilary won almost 2/3rds last time but she got all 55 representatives, so the 30+ % that voted Trump are not represented. Why don't they dish out the seats in proportion to the votes gained?

The states have that option, but I think there's only one of them that does it though, and that might be New Hampshire.

 

[Stevicus]

So, Hillary's got a "log" but Trump's got only a "splinter"? I think our discussion just hit a wall.

Just speaking figuratively. The point is to have a consistent standard.

BTW, just for the record, I didn't plan on voting for either of them but changed my mind at the last minute because I felt that Trump was too likely to win. I was right-- unfortunately.

For me, I feared that Hillary would lead us into war with Russia, which was unacceptable to me.

I also thought it was refreshing to hear a political candidate like Trump criticize free trade agreements and other such economic policies which have been disastrous for the US working class. I think it's better for America's well-being that we become more productive, economically self-sufficient, and with minimal dependence upon imports. Trump was the only candidate in a long time who actually cared about that, whereas all the other candidates are/were only interested in selling America out to the highest bidder.

That, to me, is the "log" in Hillary's and all the other candidates' eyes - the selling out of America's working class so the rich can get richer. There is no greater sin than that, in my view.

"And you shall know them by the fruits they produce, ...".

Yep.

I try to look over the long-term effects and the kinds of fruits that have been produced.

 

[Estro Felino]

For me, I feared that Hillary would lead us into war with Russia, which was unacceptable to me.

I think that if that she had won...we Europeans would have been literally annihilated...because she was the secretary of state of a person who hates the European civilization. A person with a shady background.

We Europeans owe a lot to Americans for electing Trump.
My country has always shown its blind loyalty to the US...we are the European country with the best relations with Israel too.

I hope Trump betters the American economy...I'm sure he will.

At the same time I really hope Russia and US finally get along...to allow us Europeans to trade with Russia.

 

[Cooky]

I think that if that sly dyke had won...we Europeans would have been literally annihilated...because she was the secretary of state of a person who hates the European civilization. A person with a shady background.

We Europeans owe a lot to Americans for electing Trump.
My country has always shown its blind loyalty to the US...we are the European country with the best relations with Israel too.

I hope Trump betters the American economy...I'm sure he will.

At the same time I really hope Russia and US finally get along...to allow us Europeans to trade with Russia.

I guess I never really thought much about it, but is Europe not currently trading much with Russia? In fact, as an American, I don't think I've ever seen a 'Made in Russia' tag, besides on pistols and rifles.

But then again, I was watching a documentary today, and it seems like the Syrian leader Assad offered Russia some land in return for their protection and the upper hand in ridding Syria of Sunni's... So Russia is a lot like China... Always wanting more territory. Territory whores they are.

...So I have a hard time sympathizing with nations always wanting more and more land. You know -like China trying to overlord Taiwan...

 

[Shad]

I guess I never really thought much about it, but is Europe not currently trading much with Russia?

Oil, gas and energy imports form between 1/5 to 1/3 of European imports of those products. It can dip lower and higher but I am just talking about an average. Other products are next nil due to quality comparisons and a lack of a manufacturing base like China's tech manufacturing.

 

[Estro Felino]

I guess I never really thought much about it, but is Europe not currently trading much with Russia? In fact, as an American, I don't think I've ever seen a 'Made in Russia' tag, besides on pistols and rifles.

But then again, I was watching a documentary today, and it seems like the Syrian leader Assad offered Russia some land in return for their protection and the upper hand in ridding Syria of Sunni's... So Russia is a lot like China... Always wanting more territory. Territory whores they are.

...So I have a hard time sympathizing with nations always wanting more and more land. You know -like China trying to overlord Taiwan...

Just let me say that our new Nationalist government was formed thanks to Steve Bannon.
Thank u Steve...we love u

 

[Cooky]

Just let me say that our new Nationalist government was formed thanks to Steve Bannon.
Thank u Steve...we love u

Lol. I don't know... He got popular somehow. Others had to make that happen.

...I would blame the globalists for overstepping. Maybe it was too much too fast.

 

[Cooky]

Why did u rate my post as funny? I voted for that Government so I do love Steve

Lol, it was just the way you said it. "We love u". I liked it is all. It made me smile.

 

[Shushersbedamned]

Just speaking figuratively. The point is to have a consistent standard.



For me, I feared that Hillary would lead us into war with Russia, which was unacceptable to me.

I also thought it was refreshing to hear a political candidate like Trump criticize free trade agreements and other such economic policies which have been disastrous for the US working class. I think it's better for America's well-being that we become more productive, economically self-sufficient, and with minimal dependence upon imports. Trump was the only candidate in a long time who actually cared about that, whereas all the other candidates are/were only interested in selling America out to the highest bidder.

That, to me, is the "log" in Hillary's and all the other candidates' eyes - the selling out of America's working class so the rich can get richer. There is no greater sin than that, in my view.



I try to look over the long-term effects and the kinds of fruits that have been produced.

You should not do things out of fear though.

 

[Stevicus]

I think that if that sly **** had won...

I couldn't stand Hillary, although her perceived sexual orientation had nothing to do with it. I don't really like the slur you're using here, and it may be against the rules of the forum.

we Europeans would have been literally annihilated...because she was the secretary of state of a person who hates the European civilization. A person with a shady background.

We Europeans owe a lot to Americans for electing Trump.
My country has always shown its blind loyalty to the US...we are the European country with the best relations with Israel too.

I hope Trump betters the American economy...I'm sure he will.

At the same time I really hope Russia and US finally get along...to allow us Europeans to trade with Russia.

The thing is, any candidate could have advocated for the same thing at any time. This isn't really about Trump as much as it's about all the other candidates (not just in 2016 but in past elections as well). Any of them could have supported bettering the American economy and restrained America's role in geopolitics. A friendship between America and Russia would be enormously useful and beneficial to both countries, considering the state of the world today.

The only reason why Iran, North Korea, and other smaller countries are considered "rogue" and dangerous to world stability is precisely because the major powers simply can't see eye to eye, and that's the real tragedy here. Taking a hostile tone with Russia is just like cutting off our nose to spite our face. It's ludicrous.

 

[Stevicus]

You should not do things out of fear though.

You may have a point here, but then again, that's what drives a lot of politics. I would say that the same could be said about the other side, that fear is driving a lot of the anti-Trump hysteria. And some fears about Trump (such as comparisons to Hitler) are so over the top as to be unbelievable.

 

[Stevicus]

Well...honestly...I didn't know it was that offensive, since I speak another language.
That said...I see very offensive slurs used against Trump all the time (pig, manwhore)...here
btw...if that does bother you, I'll delete it.

Yes, that's wrong, too, although the difference is that it's a slur against an entire group of people, most of whom are good, decent human beings. It wouldn't be fair to tar them with Hillary's brush.

You may want to delete just to stay in line with the forum rules, since I don't think such a word is allowed, but I don't know for certain. Perhaps a mod can clarify that.

 

[Yerda]

That, to me, is the "log" in Hillary's and all the other candidates' eyes - the selling out of America's working class so the rich can get richer. There is no greater sin than that, in my view.

I have to agree. Clinton represented the continuation of a political ideology that sees free trade and the interests of multinationals as the highest good. I think it's a little naive to think that Trump is much different here, but he did put the subject of anti-democratic free trade agreements that hurt workers and communities back into the political conversation.

 

[Shushersbedamned]

I have to agree. Clinton represented the continuation of a political ideology that sees free trade and the interests of multinationals as the highest good. I think it's a little naive to think that Trump is much different here, but he did put the subject of anti-democratic free trade agreements that hurt workers and communities back into the political conversation.

He allowed everyone to put anything into conversation. That's what got people thinking he or someone might take those things seriously. But he was bluffing and a bit of convo is all you get.

 

[Stevicus]

I have to agree. Clinton represented the continuation of a political ideology that sees free trade and the interests of multinationals as the highest good. I think it's a little naive to think that Trump is much different here, but he did put the subject of anti-democratic free trade agreements that hurt workers and communities back into the political conversation.

I don't believe that Trump is really all that different from the other candidates or politicians, but for the exact same reason, I don't believe he's really any worse either. I do believe that a lot of multinationals and other powerful factions have made a lot of money under the free trade economy, and they see their ill-gotten gains threatened by any talk of tariffs, hence the reason why there's such an intensified antipathy towards Trump.

I've seen similar tactics used against Perot, Nader, and Jerry Brown - whose only thing in common with Trump is that they were also against free trade. That's the deal-breaker and the only significant thing that truly distinguishes Trump from the rest. The rest is just minutiae.

 

[metis]

I don't believe that Trump is really all that different from the other candidates or politicians, but for the exact same reason, I don't believe he's really any worse either.

Then our "eyes" are very different. I don't think any of them would qualify for sainthood, but we've never seen anyone like Trump here in the States as our president because of his excesses. How many previous presidents said things like "I can grope them by their p***y"? or average eight lies per day when speaking publicly? or brag about their affairs? or making fun of a crippled man? or use children as pawns? or repeatedly say things like "Lock her up!"? or own a fraudulent university? or get caught illegally using campaign funds (2016, with more being investigated)? etc.?

Sorry, but I simply do not accept false equivalencies.

 

[Estro Felino]

I don't believe that Trump is really all that different from the other candidates or politicians, but for the exact same reason, I don't believe he's really any worse either. I do believe that a lot of multinationals and other powerful factions have made a lot of money under the free trade economy, and they see their ill-gotten gains threatened by any talk of tariffs, hence the reason why there's such an intensified antipathy towards Trump.

I've seen similar tactics used against Perot, Nader, and Jerry Brown - whose only thing in common with Trump is that they were also against free trade. That's the deal-breaker and the only significant thing that truly distinguishes Trump from the rest. The rest is just minutiae.

Actually the G7 has clearly showed that as for many things, Trump is totally powerless.
His desire is that Russia is readmitted into the summit, but evidently there are higher powers in the US that are against Putin and his policies..
The Crimea story was just a pretext...also thinking of how many European countries, today, support Putin.

Now the wall of lies has collapsed...evidently the previous president used to obey the higher powers ...while Trump wants to defy them.

 

[Shushersbedamned]

Actually the G7 has clearly showed that as for many things, Trump is totally powerless.
His desire is that Russia is readmitted into the summit, but evidently there are higher powers in the US that are against Putin and his policies..
The Crimea story was just a pretext...also thinking of how many European countries, today, support Putin.

 

[Stevicus]

Then our "eyes" are very different. I don't think any of them would qualify for sainthood, but we've never seen anyone like Trump here in the States as our president because of his excesses. How many previous presidents said things like "I can grope them by their p***y"? or average eight lies per day when speaking publicly? or brag about their affairs? or making fun of a crippled man? or use children as pawns? or repeatedly say things like "Lock her up!"? or own a fraudulent university? or get caught illegally using campaign funds (2016, with more being investigated)? etc.?

Sorry, but I simply do not accept false equivalencies.

Okay, but what time frame are you looking at here? Are you saying that from George Washington to Trump and everyone in between, Trump is the worst? And what scale are you looking at here and what standard? Just because of a few off-color remarks that are said in every male locker room in the country?

Sure, I can see how they're bad and offensive, but just like you don't accept false equivalencies, I don't accept making mountains out of molehills or such obvious exaggerations.