Even a moral person will go to Hell.

[longshanks]

There is nothing more contradictory than an evangelical atheist.

I dont know maybe a communist banker
I dont expect you to agree with me as miracles dont happen but on the other hand i dont see anything wrong in preaching to the preachers.

 

[longshanks]

There is nothing more contradictory than an evangelical atheist.

Or a christian soldier maybe.:yes:

 

[fantome profane]

There is nothing more contradictory than an evangelical atheist.

But why? Doesn’t an atheist have the same rights to spread their viewpoint as a theist does? And if that atheist honestly believes that the theist would be better off and that society would be better off, doesn’t that atheist have a moral responsibility to evangelize, just the same as the theist does?

 

[longshanks]

But why? Doesn’t an atheist have the same rights to spread their viewpoint as a theist does? And if that atheist honestly believes that the theist would be better off and that society would be better off, doesn’t that atheist have a moral responsibility to evangelize, just the same as the theist does?

Bravo:clap

 

[Quiddity]

But why? Doesn’t an atheist have the same rights to spread their viewpoint as a theist does? And if that atheist honestly believes that the theist would be better off and that society would be better off, doesn’t that atheist have a moral responsibility to evangelize, just the same as the theist does?

Not if he/she consistantly try's to silence the theist for doing so.

 

[Papersock]

Not if he/she consistantly try's to silence the theist for doing so.

Theists do the same thing. Everyone is trying to silence everyone else they don't agree with.

 

[Quiddity]

Theists do the same thing. Everyone is trying to silence everyone else they don't agree with.

Not this theist. I've learned tons from non-theist. My point is that the silencing is mostly going in one direction. That's my impression at least.

 

[doppelganger]

Not this theist. I've learned tons from non-theist. My point is that the silencing is mostly going in one direction. That's my impression at least.

It's seems pretty even to me these days. Depending on the location and time, the one's with the power are more likely the ones doing the silencing simply because they can. Thus, the USSR silenced many theists under Stalin, while for centuries Europe and the Church persecuted and silenced many non-theists and heretics.

Nobody here at RF can silence anyone except the moderators and administrators for those who do not wish to follow the forum rules. So it seems a little silly in the course of discussions here at RF to accuse someone of trying to "silence" someone else.

My two cents.

 

[Quiddity]

It's seems pretty even to me these days. Depending on the location and time, the one's with the power are more likely the ones doing the silencing simply because they can. Thus, the USSR silenced many theists under Stalin, while for centuries Europe and the Church persecuted and silenced many non-theists and heretics.

Nobody here at RF can silence anyone except the moderators and administrators for those who do not wish to follow the forum rules. So it seems a little silly in the course of discussions here at RF to accuse someone of trying to "silence" someone else.

My two cents.

True dat...I understand that sometimes Southern California is like another world. I can't remember the last time I bumped into a bible thumpin conservatives everybody speaks of. Mostly, I hear "take your preaching elsewhere". Not many atheistic preachers in my neck of the woods.

 

[kmkemp]

But why? Doesn’t an atheist have the same rights to spread their viewpoint as a theist does? And if that atheist honestly believes that the theist would be better off and that society would be better off, doesn’t that atheist have a moral responsibility to evangelize, just the same as the theist does?

In what way could spreading atheism improve our world? Religion, by and large, improves the character of humanity.

 

[fantome profane]

In what way could spreading atheism improve our world? Religion, by and large, improves the character of humanity.

Not debating that with you, although I certainly am not agreeing either. You are avoiding the question. The question is If and atheist honestly believes that spreading atheism will improve our world, does he or she not have a moral responsibility to do so.

 

[kmkemp]

Moral responsibility only goes as far as reality. If I believe that Bush is the antichrist and murder him, it doesn't stand to reason that I had a moral responsibility to do it. It only means that I was misguided.

 

[fantome profane]

Moral responsibility only goes as far as reality. If I believe that Bush is the antichrist and murder him, it doesn't stand to reason that I had a moral responsibility to do it. It only means that I was misguided.

Good answer, but we are not talking about murder, we are talking about a person expressing what they believe to be the truth. Are you opposed to someone expressing what they think of as being the truth? And if someone believes that truth must be expressed for the good of society, do they not have a moral responsibility to express it?

 

[kmkemp]

Sure, I will concede that maybe they *should* express it, but moral responsibility is a little strong here. If they thought that they should express their opinion because of their belief, but withheld it for some reason, no one would find fault with them.

Still, I don't see any reasonable arguments for atheism improving the human character.

 

[fantome profane]

Sure, I will concede that maybe they *should* express it, but moral responsibility is a little strong here. If they thought that they should express their opinion because of their belief, but withheld it for some reason, no one would find fault with them.

Still, I don't see any reasonable arguments for atheism improving the human character.

Well whether or not you believe that they would have a moral responsibility, you do understand that many of them do believe they have a moral responsibility. I could introduce you to dozens of individuals who do strongly believe that the world would be much better off through atheism. And they also feel a strong sense of moral responsibility. Disagree if you wish, but understand that these individuals are trying to do what they believe is right from their own sense of morality, and sometimes even at great cost to themselves.

And you are wrong when you say that no one would fault them for withholding their views. How would you feel if you knew of a theist who deeply believed that they must spread the good news but nonetheless kept silent for some reason? Many atheists would fault an atheist for keeping quiet. (not saying that I would)

 

[sojourner]

In what way is our ticket to heaven based upon our perception of morality? Why would the God of the New Covenant hold us to the standard of Pharisaical, Second-Temple Judaism? Does the Bible not tell us that God will have mercy upon whom God will have mercy?

 

[jonny]

Yes. I would say your conscience is one of the greatest proofs of God. We do not have evidence that any other being is capable of reflection.

Do you believe that this may be the point that Romans 1 is trying to get at?

 

[spiritually inclined]

I'm an atheist, and in some ways I wonder if atheism could improve the world, but I think it really depends on the person. I do the right thing because it's the right thing to do, and I cannot escape the feelings I have when I hurt someone else. I want to see that others are happy. I see that morals are the best way to enjoy one's life and help other life prosper.

Another atheist might say, "There's no god in the sky watching me, I'll do what I want."

Yet theists will follow a similar pattern. Some will be scared into doing the "right" thing. Some will believe that God is love and be inspired to do charitable works because of that. And, some theists, believing that what they do is the will of God, will strap on a bomb and kill 30 people...or thousands, like 9/11.

Belief in God is not necessary for morality.

James

 

[Booko]

That is absolutely what the Bible says. Every time an atheist says something like "I would gladly go to hell than spend eternity with God" I can't help but bust into a raging fit of laughter. Who are you kidding? Do you really believe that?

What would your reaction be if an atheist asked you if you would gladly go spend Eternity with Morgoth rather than spend eternity with the Valar?

 

[Booko]

Scare people enough and they'll do anything you want.

You've nearly scared me into making a comment about politics.