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Eve vs Lilith

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
For those who don't know the mythological tale, here is a pretty short summary:
Lilith and Eve
Legend has it that Lilith was Adam's first wife, created together with him on the Sixth Day and from the same materials. Some say Lilith was created a little later, after Adam complained to God that he alone of the creatures of the earth had no partner. Either way, Lilith was created independently from and equal to Adam, and this led to problems.

Not least of them arose because Adam always liked to be on top when making love. No doubt this was merely a symptom of deeper differences, but it was the issue that caused the rift in the end. After a particularly fierce argument which Adam attempted to win by force, Lilith in fury uttered the mystical, ineffable Name of the Almighty, clapped her hands and flew away.

Adam complained to Jehovah that he had been abandoned, so God sent three angels to persuade Lilith to return home. They found her on the shores of the Red sea in a place populated by a particularly lascivious breed of demon, from whose attentions she had been giving birth to a hundred more little demons every day. At least, that is how the angels reported it in Adam's version of events.

The three angels tried to coax Lilith to return to Adam but she only laughed: 'How could I go back to Adam after the entertainment I have enjoyed here?' The angels threatened to kill her but she only dared them to try. Which they did, and failed because she had learned some magical tricks in her exile. But after a great battle they managed to bundle her into the Outer Darkness and slaughter her offspring.
Adam meanwhile had been provided with a new mate in the form of Eve, who was fashioned from his rib in the hope that this would bind her more dutifully to him. And the rest of their tale is famous enough not to need repeating here.



My question is: what do Eve and Lilith really symbolize? What did the author of this myth mean to convey?
Thank you in advance
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
For those who don't know the mythological tale, here is a pretty short summary:
Lilith and Eve
Legend has it that Lilith was Adam's first wife, created together with him on the Sixth Day and from the same materials. Some say Lilith was created a little later, after Adam complained to God that he alone of the creatures of the earth had no partner. Either way, Lilith was created independently from and equal to Adam, and this led to problems.

Not least of them arose because Adam always liked to be on top when making love. No doubt this was merely a symptom of deeper differences, but it was the issue that caused the rift in the end. After a particularly fierce argument which Adam attempted to win by force, Lilith in fury uttered the mystical, ineffable Name of the Almighty, clapped her hands and flew away.

Adam complained to Jehovah that he had been abandoned, so God sent three angels to persuade Lilith to return home. They found her on the shores of the Red sea in a place populated by a particularly lascivious breed of demon, from whose attentions she had been giving birth to a hundred more little demons every day. At least, that is how the angels reported it in Adam's version of events.

The three angels tried to coax Lilith to return to Adam but she only laughed: 'How could I go back to Adam after the entertainment I have enjoyed here?' The angels threatened to kill her but she only dared them to try. Which they did, and failed because she had learned some magical tricks in her exile. But after a great battle they managed to bundle her into the Outer Darkness and slaughter her offspring.
Adam meanwhile had been provided with a new mate in the form of Eve, who was fashioned from his rib in the hope that this would bind her more dutifully to him. And the rest of their tale is famous enough not to need repeating here.



My question is: what do Eve and Lilith really symbolize? What did the author of this myth mean to convey?
Thank you in advance
From your spoiler link:
<...>In the Outer Darkness Lilith, whose most common form was of a woman from the waist up and a serpent below,<...>​
This description of Lilith resembles Naga Kanya, guardian of the hidden reasures and the secret teachings:
Naga Kanya med tint.jpg
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
I think the central premise of the myth is that Lilith refused to be submissive. Western religion is all about submission, and one who does not submit is seen as a threat. It was also likely created to help explain the two creation stories in Genesis.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
I think the central premise of the myth is that Lilith refused to be submissive. Western religion is all about submission, and one who does not submit is seen as a threat. It was also likely created to help explain the two creation stories in Genesis.

Exactly...thank you for bringing it up.

God creates Adam and Lilith : Genesis, 1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

God creates Eve Genesis 2,21
21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; 22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
 

Electra

Active Member
I feel it is the two sides of each persona, we can not control our wild natures and when we try they get stronger and will come out in another way.
we have a order & a chaos , a dark & light ect ect.
Our wild nature needs to be free
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
I feel it is the two sides of each persona, we can not control our wild natures and when we try they get stronger and will come out in another way.
we have a order & a chaos , a dark & light ect ect.
Our wild nature needs to be free
To be honest, I think that myth intends to portray the difference between two archetypes, the alpha female and the betha female.
 

Axe Elf

Prophet
Exactly...thank you for bringing it up.

God creates Adam and Lilith : Genesis, 1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

God creates Eve Genesis 2,21
21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; 22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

If the woman created in Genesis 2 is not the woman created in Genesis 1, then who's to say that the Adam spoken of in Genesis 2 is the Adam spoken of in Genesis 1? And the beasts and stuff that God created in Genesis 2 probably aren't the same beasts that He created in Genesis 1, either. It might have even been a different planet.

Good grief some of this stuff gets ridiculous.
 

roger1440

I do stuff
For those who don't know the mythological tale, here is a pretty short summary:
Lilith and Eve
Legend has it that Lilith was Adam's first wife, created together with him on the Sixth Day and from the same materials. Some say Lilith was created a little later, after Adam complained to God that he alone of the creatures of the earth had no partner. Either way, Lilith was created independently from and equal to Adam, and this led to problems.

Not least of them arose because Adam always liked to be on top when making love. No doubt this was merely a symptom of deeper differences, but it was the issue that caused the rift in the end. After a particularly fierce argument which Adam attempted to win by force, Lilith in fury uttered the mystical, ineffable Name of the Almighty, clapped her hands and flew away.

Adam complained to Jehovah that he had been abandoned, so God sent three angels to persuade Lilith to return home. They found her on the shores of the Red sea in a place populated by a particularly lascivious breed of demon, from whose attentions she had been giving birth to a hundred more little demons every day. At least, that is how the angels reported it in Adam's version of events.

The three angels tried to coax Lilith to return to Adam but she only laughed: 'How could I go back to Adam after the entertainment I have enjoyed here?' The angels threatened to kill her but she only dared them to try. Which they did, and failed because she had learned some magical tricks in her exile. But after a great battle they managed to bundle her into the Outer Darkness and slaughter her offspring.
Adam meanwhile had been provided with a new mate in the form of Eve, who was fashioned from his rib in the hope that this would bind her more dutifully to him. And the rest of their tale is famous enough not to need repeating here.



My question is: what do Eve and Lilith really symbolize? What did the author of this myth mean to convey?
Thank you in advance
Have you ever heard the night wind while it whistles around your home? Wind is restless, there is no calm. Wind is created by two opposing forces. Until one wins one submits to the other. According to the story God did not leave Lilith, Lilith left God. Lilith left the Garden, God wanted reconciliation. Look closely to the story. God never said men are above a woman or equal. It would appear according to the story God wants men and women to work things out rather than run away. Lilith will never find rest until she returns. She is a homeless wanderer.

The version of Lilith you had given comes from “Alphabet of Sirach”. This is not a “mythological tale”. The story is satire. Satire is an exaggeration of truth, at least in the mind of the author. Beneath the exaggeration would be a kernel of truth. What is the kernel of truth would be a better question to ask. What is the author exaggerating?

Here is the story in its entirety:

Alphabet of Sirach - Wikipedia
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
I think Adam wanting Lilith to "sleep beneath him" was Adam trying to repress his Anima, and Lilith saying, "I will not sleep beneath you" refers to Anima projection. Eve represents to Anima staying within the personal unconscious.

Your mileage may vary.
I think ancient Mesopotamian myths cannot be the result of modern psychology speculations.
As for Eve's perspective...she needed a dominant man and God made her happy.
Lilith's vocation was different. Maybe she would have been happier as a dy..e..lol
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
I think ancient Mesopotamian myths cannot be the result of modern psychology speculations.
As for Eve's perspective...she needed a dominant man and God made her happy.
Lilith's vocation was different. Maybe she would have been happier as a dy..e..lol
Has the human mind really changed much since then? Archetypes have repeately shown up across history and across different cultures. {Checks to make sure this is the Interfaith discussion forum and not a DIR}
 
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