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Featured Eve and the Serpent - Jews and Christians

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Israel Khan, Feb 17, 2021.

  1. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    I see what you're saying but there is no way God made people to die originally. God doesn't make death. It happens because of sin. This is why Jesus rose from the dead bodily to overcome death altogether both physical and spiritual.
     
  2. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    nay.....

    it's quite simple really

    place yourself in God's situation......yes you can

    Someone had to be FIRST...in mind and heart
    First to say....I AM!

    having done so, a quick look about and ......no one else
    and no resopnse to that intial declaration
    only His Echo

    creation takes hold
    it's God and the firmament
    sure.....the creation responds to His Voice and his Touch
    but it doesn't really......respond

    there is no other alternative....Spirit and substance must join
    and chemistry has rules

    here we are

    and one of the rules........we die
    that much was in place on Day Six
    Man as a species....no names, no garden, no law
    go forth, be frutiful and multiply......dominate all things

    but Man as a species does not look up
    and the spirit of Man dies with him

    so.....Chapter Two, Genesis
    Adam is a CHOSEN son of God
    Eve is a clone.....not born of woman.....no navel
    and the experiment was intended to bring forth a SPIRIT in Man
    that he be curious
    even as death is a pending consequence

    they passed the test

    physically they died
    we all do

    but do you think?.......they perished in spirit
     
  3. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe Jesus does not say why He is going to rise from the dead. Does Paul? I thought maybe in I Cor. 15 he intimates that it gives us hope of our resurrection.

    1Cor 15:20 But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
     
  4. actsfourthirty

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    then how do you explain original sin and fallen human nature?

    Also gen 3:15 the woman crushes his proud head?
     
  5. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe sin originated with the devil falling away from god and taking a bunch of angels with him.

    I believe the devil lied to man and men believed him.
     
  6. WhoIsBeast 750

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    the head is a reference to the jana (and the severed head) according to the apocrypha

    and cut off his head (ie John)

    if you want to understand the deeper I know, look in your pism

    Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed. It will crush your head, and you will crush his heel. "



    I will put enmity between you and the church

    and between thy seed and her seed.

    it crushes Jan and Jan crushes her (like a snake's heel) in symbolism

    So in the end the whore of Babylon will discover all her lies

    yet it is misunderstood
     
  7. actsfourthirty

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    who is the woman? Gen 3:15 and rev 12:1
     
  8. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    I agree that not knowing what death meant would make the whole warning from God silly, so I assume that [email protected] would have an idea of what it meant, probably from seeing the deaths of animals.
    [email protected] surely would have an understanding of language and not be like growing children who are still learning that.
    The idea that [email protected] did not know good and evil and so could not do what is wrong seems sort of right but they did know that they should not do what God had told them not to do.
    It is the same with a child who is learning about good and evil and does what he knows his parents say not to do. They know they have done the wrong thing if they do it.
     
  9. viole

    viole Ontological Naturalist
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    Ok, but why all this cosmic drama for the equivalent of little clueless children having disobeyed?

    ciao

    - viole
     
  10. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    I was trying to say that they would have been more than the equivalent of little children but putting that aside the cosmic drama brought about by a cosmic agent, the serpent, not only showed the bigger picture of the problem of evil which was rearing it's head in God's Kingdom but also determined the direction that God had to send humanity and showed the reason for moral evil in the world.
    It is something that God knew would happen and had prepared for but it has been and continues to be the hard way for us to learn about good and evil and be saved from it's consequences in us and the world.
     
  11. viole

    viole Ontological Naturalist
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    Do you think that when we are saved, then there will be no more evil? How?

    Ciao

    - viole
     
  12. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    I imagine that there will always be the potential for evil just as there was the potential for Jesus to sin when He was a man on earth.
    In the Kingdom of God there will be those who want to be like God and who have been perfected so that they can be like God and be able to control themselves. They will know good and evil and the results of evil and choose good. They will know God and know what He wants and does not want and trust what He says.
    This is how I see things will end up.
    Whether it will be exactly like that at the start is another thing.
     
  13. Bree

    Bree Member

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    She may not have died immediately, but she did eventually die along with her husband.

    therefore satan did lie. He said she wouldnt, but she did.

    I dont see the problem.
     
  14. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    Me neither.
     
  15. Israel Khan

    Israel Khan Well-Known Member

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    Is Eve's death recorded in Genesis?
     
  16. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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  17. Bree

    Bree Member

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    no its not
     
  18. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe God is able to alter our memories and proclivities.
     
  19. viole

    viole Ontological Naturalist
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    So much for free will.

    why did He not do it at the beginning? Like our proclivity for apples and disobeying?

    That would have simplified things a lot.

    ciao

    - viole
     
  20. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe drama often results from sin.
     
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