Evangelical opposition to abortion: manufactured and recent

[Kangaroo Feathers]

The Real Origins of the Religious Right

So, you know, give the holier than thou righteous indignation a rest, maybe?

 

[David T]

The Real Origins of the Religious Right

So, you know, give the holier than thou righteous indignation a rest, maybe?

I dont even need to read it i experienced it. Hell the cheer leader frankie schaffer totally isnt even an evangelical anumore. I actually went to listen to francis schaffer and c everett coop before he was surgeon general talk in this topic. What schaffer was concerned about more than simply abortion was the implications of it. But massive pipulation growth due to effective science rendered that mute. Our lives are cheap. 200, 000 more a day 80.million a year. 2.8 billion when i was born 7.5 billion today. Just in My life time.

 

[74x12]

The Real Origins of the Religious Right

So, you know, give the holier than thou righteous indignation a rest, maybe?

Ah, politico ...

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Ah, politico ...

Ah, well poisoning...


Seriously. Are there any actual inaccuracies in the article, or are you content to stick your fingers in your ears and yell LALALALALA until the nasty facts go away?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I dont even need to read it i experienced it. Hell the cheer leader frankie schaffer totally isnt even an evangelical anumore. I actually went to listen to francis schaffer and c everett coop before he was surgeon general talk in this topic. What schaffer was concerned about more than simply abortion was the implications of it. But massive pipulation growth due to effective science rendered that mute. Our lives are cheap. 200, 000 more a day 80.million a year. 2.8 billion when i was born 7.5 billion today. Just in My life time.

Yeah, there are too many people. The negative birth rate in developed nations is a good thing. The rest of the world needs to follow suit.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Ah, well poisoning...


Seriously. Are there any actual inaccuracies in the article, or are you content to stick your fingers in your ears and yell LALALALALA until the nasty facts go away?

I can tell you for %100 percent sure that my parents only got involved because of the Pro Life issue and in response to stirring sermons about the Equal Rights Amendment which they believed had something to do with promoting homosexuality, abortion. It was part of a Satanic conspiracy according to them, and they fought it like it was one. I also do not think that the majority of popular characters in the Religious Right were supporting segregation. I think practically everyone involved considered these to be separate issues.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I never would have guessed Southern Baptists used to be OK with abortion. They most certainly were not when I was one of them.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I also do not think that the majority of popular characters in the Religious Right were supporting segregation.

Southern Baptist formed over the issue of slavery, and indeed they are very much into segregation. When I was homeschooled as one, the material included these little comic thingies, and they were racially segregated, and heavily segregated by gender as well. This material also supported apartheid Africa, basically saying the natives had no rights or claims in their own country because the white man came along and set up shop and because the white man owned everything it just wouldn't be fair to let the black man have a say.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I can tell you for %100 percent sure that my parents only got involved because of the Pro Life issue and in response to stirring sermons about the Equal Rights Amendment which they believed had something to do with promoting homosexuality, abortion. It was part of a Satanic conspiracy according to them, and they fought it like it was one. I also do not think that the majority of popular characters in the Religious Right were supporting segregation. I think practically everyone involved considered these to be separate issues.

Rank and file Evangelical church members probably do sincerely believe abortion is a satanic conspiracy. Maybe some of the senior figures do too, now, after years of internalising it. The point, though, is that at some point Evangelical protestant churches made a conscious decision to take their current stance on abortion. It's not the "always and forever has been core belief" that many Evangelical people seem to believe it to be.

 

[Sunstone]

Before the abortion issue, the religious right exploited the race issue. Indeed, Falwell mobilized the right to oppose abortion because the right began to lose on the race issue. In my opinion, abortion has for the right always been code for keeping women in the places.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

In my opinion, abortion has for the right always been code for keeping women in the places.

If I still had my PACE booklets (the curriculum booklet thingies when I was home schooled) I would share some of the harrowing ideas they teach and promote that are designed to keep women "in their place."

 

[Cacotopia]

I dont even need to read it i experienced it. Hell the cheer leader frankie schaffer totally isnt even an evangelical anumore. I actually went to listen to francis schaffer and c everett coop before he was surgeon general talk in this topic. What schaffer was concerned about more than simply abortion was the implications of it. But massive pipulation growth due to effective science rendered that mute. Our lives are cheap. 200, 000 more a day 80.million a year. 2.8 billion when i was born 7.5 billion today. Just in My life time.

the abundance of lives makes it cheap in my opinion.

 

[David T]

the abundance of lives makes it cheap in my opinion.

Yes.... Something schaeffer didnt grasp. Today i would point that out if i was in the same conference. but i was in a world that projected itself as "smart" .... It is, and not really....

Being young, just starting college, and a fish out of water, i was led to think or "believe" highly educated people knew what they were talking about. Now i am francis schaeffers age that he was at the time... I have to laugh at his absurdities.i grasped the emotion i was confused by his logic then.

 

[Cacotopia]

Yes.... Something schaeffer didnt grasp. Today i would point that out if i was in the same conference. but i was in a world that projected itself as "smart" .... It is, and not really....

Being young, just starting college, and a fish out of water, i was led to think or "believe" highly educated people knew what they were talking about. Now i am francis schaeffers age that he was at the time... I have to laugh at his absurdities.i grasped the emotion i was confused by his logic then.

I think there comes a point when you reach a certain level of population where humanitarian decisions are more detrimental to the survival of the whole. Yes this view is quite unpopular but unless "sacrifices" are made, or we stop making shortsighted decisions that are governed by the accumulation of wealth for a few than raising the bar of standards of both quality of life and efficiency of consumption.

I think privileged segments of humanity have either buried and sabotaged, or bought and shelved a great many inventions, revolutionary processes, and technologies that raised the bar in fuel consumption and energy conservation to a whole new level. For one purpose I can only fathom as it would cause a loss in capital. Yet the market would recover, it always does, because it will balance itself to the new input that it receives. Combustion tech is well over 150 years old. yet the base model of this technology has not changed too much. Why is that?

Cars come off the factory line burning fuel 40% too rich. The ethanol "solution" to the emissions problem did nothing, to make matters worse the combustion engines of cars were made to run on unleaded fuel and diesel with no substitutes, and as a result the engines run a rough estimate of 30% less efficient. So now our cars and motorcycles run on a 30% potential fuel efficiency.

Would you buy something that ran at only 30%, where 70% of the fuel you put in your transportation is literally wasted? I don't think so. Who made the ethanol fuel? oil companies? who won in the end because they are making 70% more profit than if they A) built the cars to an efficient spec, and B) did not redesign an engine that would run on ethanol at a higher efficiency. Oil companies, yes other corporate entities are involved, but I think the prior is at the top of this pyramid of corruption. I sound like a conspiracy nut now.

Do they make drill bits that do not break, yes....yes they do. I cannot say who as I would not want my father to be in any legal trouble with X drilling company. But yes there are products out there that wear down at an astronomically slower rate than even the best products available. They are just not available to ANYONE. Why would they sell it, they would make no money if the parts never needed replacing. You can make an engine out of semi precious metals that degrade and corrode at a much slower rate. But why would a company want to sell a car that never needed parts replacement?

Money is what governs these shortsighted decisions. Decisions made that project only a mere 20-50 years into the future. A generation or two.

I am convinced we are ****ed, if we don't change this attitude of greed a high percentage of humanity has, into something that is geared on sustainability and comfort with what is required to live and be happy.

But you would need to restructure how people think about things from square one. Competition is important to instill drive in people but make it geared to be collective competition. Individual competition instills bot drive, self preservation and greed in a person's mentality. It creates a sea of individuals climbing over each other to stand on the top. As opposed to a collective or team working in unison to raise the entire population to the top. You could write a whole book on how we are raised drives how we think. And in my honest opinion America is a nation full of individuals with the goal of getting the most of what they can when they can however they can. There is very little sense of community in America.

If I made a pole and asked how many Americans that live in a neighborhood, know anything about at least 10 of their neighbors, what they do, first and last name, their hobbies. etc etc. I bet you there are 5% that would fall into that category. I'll just stop here I covered a fair enough bit I think.

but we are doomed if we continue how we have been continuing.

 

[David T]

I think there comes a point when you reach a certain level of population where humanitarian decisions are more detrimental to the survival of the whole. Yes this view is quite unpopular but unless "sacrifices" are made, or we stop making shortsighted decisions that are governed by the accumulation of wealth for a few than raising the bar of standards of both quality of life and efficiency of consumption.

I think privileged segments of humanity have either buried and sabotaged, or bought and shelved a great many inventions, revolutionary processes, and technologies that raised the bar in fuel consumption and energy conservation to a whole new level. For one purpose I can only fathom as it would cause a loss in capital. Yet the market would recover, it always does, because it will balance itself to the new input that it receives. Combustion tech is well over 150 years old. yet the base model of this technology has not changed too much. Why is that?

Cars come off the factory line burning fuel 40% too rich. The ethanol "solution" to the emissions problem did nothing, to make matters worse the combustion engines of cars were made to run on unleaded fuel and diesel with no substitutes, and as a result the engines run a rough estimate of 30% less efficient. So now our cars and motorcycles run on a 30% potential fuel efficiency.

Would you buy something that ran at only 30%, where 70% of the fuel you put in your transportation is literally wasted? I don't think so. Who made the ethanol fuel? oil companies? who won in the end because they are making 70% more profit than if they A) built the cars to an efficient spec, and B) did not redesign an engine that would run on ethanol at a higher efficiency. Oil companies, yes other corporate entities are involved, but I think the prior is at the top of this pyramid of corruption. I sound like a conspiracy nut now.

Do they make drill bits that do not break, yes....yes they do. I cannot say who as I would not want my father to be in any legal trouble with X drilling company. But yes there are products out there that wear down at an astronomically slower rate than even the best products available. They are just not available to ANYONE. Why would they sell it, they would make no money if the parts never needed replacing. You can make an engine out of semi precious metals that degrade and corrode at a much slower rate. But why would a company want to sell a car that never needed parts replacement?

Money is what governs these shortsighted decisions. Decisions made that project only a mere 20-50 years into the future. A generation or two.

I am convinced we are ****ed, if we don't change this attitude of greed a high percentage of humanity has, into something that is geared on sustainability and comfort with what is required to live and be happy.

But you would need to restructure how people think about things from square one. Competition is important to instill drive in people but make it geared to be collective competition. Individual competition instills bot drive, self preservation and greed in a person's mentality. It creates a sea of individuals climbing over each other to stand on the top. As opposed to a collective or team working in unison to raise the entire population to the top. You could write a whole book on how we are raised drives how we think. And in my honest opinion America is a nation full of individuals with the goal of getting the most of what they can when they can however they can. There is very little sense of community in America.

If I made a pole and asked how many Americans that live in a neighborhood, know anything about at least 10 of their neighbors, what they do, first and last name, their hobbies. etc etc. I bet you there are 5% that would fall into that category. I'll just stop here I covered a fair enough bit I think.

but we are doomed if we continue how we have been continuing.

You are preaching to the choir!!!

"I am convinced we are ****ed, if we don't change this attitude"

Thats the precise reason i am on this site to explore how wee see ourselves and the world around us. John Muirs writings wer able to change attitudes and i am always on the lookout for individuals who express in art whether it be music (my choice) painting, movies, science, religion, wroting who are working towards altering our collective perceptions of ourselves and the world around us.

Ironically i subscribe to a journal on ecopsychology. In 30 years , accedamia has managed to take what should be a rather self evident idea and make it totally obtuse and innaccessible..that idea is simple humans need unaltered landscapes for sound mental health.

So not only Is it an enviromemtal problem but a mental health issue. One only has to see how we go about our business of daily business to know its not mentally healthy at all.

I dont think change happens on a macro scale unless there are a whole lot of individuals striving for change annonomously on a micro scale.. Of course we are ****ed. Thats why i have said noahs ark is fact we are in the middle of a noahs ark moment. A rapid shrinking of global populations of various species people now arking, or protecting species, complete disregard for the enviroment, or concern only as a substainable slave to the starus quo. We depersonalized the landscape, we turned it into a machine that either a wizard designed and operates or its just a random meaningless machine.. I sometimes am shocked how "christian" much of modern science really is at some simple level.

All those deeply historically rooted views on nature need to change and that takes a lot of effort done invisibly.. I might say the ancient texts are infact speaking about nature not in separarion from nature. But thats not easy to get into peoples brains to say the least culture conspires against that.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

Interestingly enough, Roman Catholic opposition to abortion is rather recent. The doctrine that human life begins at conception was only established in the 19th century, while in the Middle Ages St Hildegard included abortifacients in her herbal!

 

[Cacotopia]

You are preaching to the choir!!!

"I am convinced we are ****ed, if we don't change this attitude"

Thats the precise reason i am on this site to explore how wee see ourselves and the world around us. John Muirs writings wer able to change attitudes and i am always on the lookout for individuals who express in art whether it be music (my choice) painting, movies, science, religion, wroting who are working towards altering our collective perceptions of ourselves and the world around us.

Ironically i subscribe to a journal on ecopsychology. In 30 years , accedamia has managed to take what should be a rather self evident idea and make it totally obtuse and innaccessible..that idea is simple humans need unaltered landscapes for sound mental health.

So not only Is it an enviromemtal problem but a mental health issue. One only has to see how we go about our business of daily business to know its not mentally healthy at all.

I dont think change happens on a macro scale unless there are a whole lot of individuals striving for change annonomously on a micro scale.. Of course we are ****ed. Thats why i have said noahs ark is fact we are in the middle of a noahs ark moment. A rapid shrinking of global populations of various species people now arking, or protecting species, complete disregard for the enviroment, or concern only as a substainable slave to the starus quo. We depersonalized the landscape, we turned it into a machine that either a wizard designed and operates or its just a random meaningless machine.. I sometimes am shocked how "christian" much of modern science really is at some simple level.

All those deeply historically rooted views on nature need to change and that takes a lot of effort done invisibly.. I might say the ancient texts are infact speaking about nature not in separarion from nature. But thats not easy to get into peoples brains to say the least culture conspires against that.

I have done some art that reflects what we do to nature. and our own environment and I have met quite a few artists around where I live that are on he same frequency as I am. But then again not everyone gets art....especially the kind where you have to use your imagination.

There's a Balinese artist I really like he does paintings where it shows a beautiful landscape and it's being lifted like a curtain be a villager in the paintings and they are sweeping trash behind the "image." that a far more direct message than what I do.

I have had this mentality since I was in my mid twenties. (I am 34 now) Hopefully there are others and more even younger, the more youth you get to realize that our current mental and emotional attitude endangers our very future the better.

 

[David T]

I have done some art that reflects what we do to nature. and our own environment and I have met quite a few artists around where I live that are on he same frequency as I am. But then again not everyone gets art....especially the kind where you have to use your imagination.

There's a Balinese artist I really like he does paintings where it shows a beautiful landscape and it's being lifted like a curtain be a villager in the paintings and they are sweeping trash behind the "image." that a far more direct message than what I do.

I think at the end of the day art is always the best wat to communicate. That of course tends to be turned into religion and philosophy, that of course then becomes political which and eventually falls prey to its own manufactured confusion opening the door for more art to speak. So to speak!!!

That whole cycle is interesting. If i say the bible is art, believers will disagree, atheists have no idea because its not a science text and only truth is science for most of them, and agnostics prefer philosophy!!! I am not sure where "believe" and "not believe" and "agnostic" really fits art at all. Its all elevator muzak to me in that regard, bad art!!!! Lol.

 

[Cacotopia]

I think at the end of the day art is always the best wat to communicate. That of course tends to be turned into religion and philosophy, that of course then becomes political which and eventually falls prey to its own manufactured confusion opening the door for more art to speak. So to speak!!!

That whole cycle is interesting. If i say the bible is art, believers will disagree, atheists have no idea because its not a science text and only truth is science for most of them, and agnostics prefer philosophy!!! I am not sure where "believe" and "not believe" and "agnostic" really fits art at all. Its all elevator muzak to me in that regard, bad art!!!! Lol.

I do consider the bible to be a great book of literature. It's a pretty amazing story. Just imagine if we worshiped Hrothgar as god, and Grendel was the "devil" it's the same thing. A legendary tale of fantasy. One of the oldest surviving pieces of literary art from the bronze age.

 

[David T]

I do consider the bible to be a great book of literature. It's a pretty amazing story. Just imagine if we worshiped Hrothgar as god, and Grendel was the "devil" it's the same thing. A legendary tale of fantasy. One of the oldest surviving pieces of literary art from the bronze age.

These are incredibly difficult stories for us.. Tolkien understood that indeed the new testament story was global. What he contended was this story played in flesh. One could steal from the LOTR INTRO "Myth became flesh, flesh became legend, legend became myth" which is where we exist in that cycle. Cs lewis in graspinG that had a serious change of perspective as a writer. While i am not a lewis fan i do find tolkien and lewis relationship facinating as artists. I generally am not a fan of scholars since so few of them are ever more than simple craftsmen. I suppose those who can do and those who cant teach is pretty accurate. Most people dont realize tolkiens degree was identical to nietzches philology, and he was the foremost beowolf scholar on the planet.