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Featured Eunuchs for the kingdom of God

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by PopeADope, Jan 10, 2018.

  1. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    But one needs to look at the letters attributed to him as being in a succession as it appears that he modifies some of his positions as time goes on. Some theologians that I have read believe that Paul maybe came to realize that Jesus' return might not happen during his lifetime, thus necessitating modification of his teaching in this area and maybe even some others.

    Hard to say.
     
  2. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    Oh but don't forget....all the new testament is God's breathed word :p
     
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  3. Gerry

    Gerry Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for making that clear. I do agree.
     
  4. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    I cannot speak on things that others have considered but is not available before me for examination since I am no mind reader.
    I don't mind examining such claims if put before me.
     
  5. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    Correcting an omission error of my own quote: ((Jesus doesn't say anything about this directly at least)
    Sorry. My original text can no longer be edited it seems.
     
  6. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    I need to include something though I already answered. As to causing physical harm to oneself or others by various means, castration, amputation unnecessary, the answer is obviously a resounding negative.

    What is at times not clear is the interpretation of the text. So, while I interpreted the 'making a eunuch of oneself' (paraphrased) one way, that does not mean that my interpretation is true. There is always room for considering other interpretations at times. In this case, the dogma does not impact most when considering all the handed down text. I am just saying that discussions about how to interpret things may assist in better understanding at times. Other times, things are straightforward.
     
  7. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    Looks like it says to take your eyes out and whack your hand off to me. Or, does mean you're not actually supposed to put homosexuals to death, and their blood is on them is also metaphor? Is Creation and the Flood metaphor? Is the Passion and virgin birth metaphor?
     
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  8. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    How do we know what translation? The English ones tend to not be that good.
     
  9. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    Well, I hope this is an obvious hyperbole to you. A metaphor for something else.
    The laws about this and more, in the Mosaic law was for the nation of Israel, not for Christians. Since when in modern times do we get to make the laws of an entire nation. I am happy that religious freedom, and the freedom to claim no religion exists; I am sure you are too.
    Why do you think this should be metaphors? Are these things part of Christ's parables? I think not.

    I am not sure what you refer to with 'the passion' of Christ. Didn't see the movie and do not intent to. If that is where you get your Biblical knowledge from, you need help. ;):) (not intending to offend)
     
  10. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    Has Heaven and Earth come to an end?
     
  11. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    I use a very good software called SWORD. It permits many many translations, it is free, but one can contribute. It has English, German, Greek, and so much more. Its KJV software has the Strong's dictionary available at the touch of a button.

    When this doesn't suffice, I go on the net. There they have interlinear English Greek, or Hebrew / Aramaic Bible versions so that you can make up your own mind which translation is the best. Also, at times the NWT is good for searching and rendering text. It has the best search machine of them all. At times, its translation is good, and other times bad.

    On search machines of the Bible, it must be said that if you do not know the word or phrase you are looking for in a scripture, it may be nearly impossible to find what you are looking for.

    I like the ASV, Darby, ESV, Rotherham (at times). I also use a variety of others on difficult passages.
     
  12. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    It is unfortunate that I know what you refer to.

    Let's get something straight. You do not believe in the Bible, and you are not Christian. In this then, I decide what I believe in. End of story to a degree.
    I don't want to insult you or others in how intelligent they are. But, sometimes, it is hard not to. Like, when people do not understand the plain English used in scripture.

    Example: I hire you to cut my grass of my garden (don't have one actually) I tell you, I'll pay you $30 for cutting this small garden's grass. I'll pay you if when you are finished. Come and get me so that I can verify the job is done.

    The person now comes one hour later, the grass is not cut and he wants his money. Am I obliged to pay him? No. The condition was to cut the grass, and come and get me to verify the work has been done. Neither condition has been fulfilled. I need not pay, at least not yet.​
    Many unbelievers now quote Matthew 5: 18:
    ESV: 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
    Darby: 18 For verily I say unto you, Until the heaven and the earth pass away, one iota or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law till all come to pass.
    KJV 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
    ISV: 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not one letter or one stroke of a letter will disappear from the Law until everything has been accomplished.​
    If you cannot see here that the disappearance of the law hinges on a conditional phrase in each and every translation, then this discussion cannot continue and you need to study conditional phases.

    So, once 'everything has been accomplished' then the law was permitted to pass away.

    This is why we read:
    Luke 16:16The Law and the Prophets were until John. From then on the kingdom of God is being declared as good news, and every sort of person is pressing forward toward it.
    Jesus fulfilled the law. This is why we see that Paul tells us that the Mosaic law was done away with on the cross.

    More of the same: link: Matt 5:17



     
  13. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    My point is that there are some different ways that a narrative may be interpreted, and this also can hypothetically apply to Paul's dogmatism on this matter. Paul appears to have modified his position on marriage, so it begs the question why? We cannot know for sure, but we can look at the possibilities that seem reasonable.
     
  14. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    That doesn't address the question of how do we know what translation we know is best, or the point that English translations aren't that good. The KJV, for example, is known to not be that great of a translation.
    That says nothing of "all things" (as the return of Christ is yet to come) nor does it say Heaven and Earth have passed.
    Paul contradicts Jesus on many topics and points.
     
  15. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    How? He speaks on marriage, the interplay, divorce if the unbeliever is abusive, the benefits of singleness. But, changing his views, I know not where to look.
     
  16. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    There is no best translation. You get to know what is written by long familiarity. I gave you several examples of one verse. Which do you think presented the matter in the easiest way to understand, in the best English?" When then they all say the same thing, you know they are OK, but which is preferred then? That becomes a small matter. Commonly, I like ASV and Darby. At times, these contain small problems so I go to others such as Rotherham, etc.
    No, he doesn't.

    If you saw my link, it contained exhaustive information to that particular subject.
     
  17. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    They don't all say the same thing though. The KJV, for example, does not explicitly state homosexuality. Some of them do. It's because of the debate over a word that isn't easily translated or understood in contemporary Western understandings of sexuality that is explicitly one-or-the-other. Really, when they wrote "man who lies with a man as he would a woman," they were using the best understanding at the the time, and when it was written not even heterosexuality was known or understood. It's only with today's perceptions and understandings that modern translations can say "homosexual," because the original word doesn't describe it "homosexual" as we know it. Witch is another word where changes in cultural attitudes has shifted how that word is interpreted and understood, and doesn't really match the original meaning.
    No translation is perfect. I'm not asking you what you do, I'm asking you how you know what translations are correct, and how can we know? And such as "lost in translation" doesn't only apply to the Bible or going from one language to another, but it even burdens the understanding of Shakespeare because even the English language has changed a lot in just the past few hundred years.
     
  18. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    Each translation has its own shortcomings. You have to study things deeply when something happens in a study to give cause for taking things to a deeper level. At times, I go to the Greek version (ancient one, not modern) At times, I go to the interlinear Hebrew English. It is at times indicated. The scripture that says about God that 'I am that I am' is a poor rendering of the interlinear Hebrew. It is what makes study fun.
     
  19. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    I agreeing studying is fun. However, describing methodology doesn't provide evidence. You've done the research, now what are the results?
     
  20. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    I already told you what Bible I use online and off line. In the example of God's name's description, I went online for the best answer, the Hebrew English interlinear Bible material.

    In some cases my knowledge of the rest of the Bible assists me in picking what cannot be correct translations and picking what clearly is the most accurate. It is a case by case thing.
     
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