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Featured Eunuchs for the kingdom of God

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by PopeADope, Jan 10, 2018.

  1. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    Matt 19:12
    King James Bible
    For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

    The term eunuch (/ˈjuːnək/; Greek: εὐνοῦχος)[1] generally refers to a manwho has been castrated,[2] typically early enough in his life for this change to have major hormonal consequences. In Latin, the words eunuchus,[3] spado (Greek: σπάδων spadon),[4][5] and castratus were used to denote eunuchs.[6]
    Eunuch - Wikipedia

    Any volunteers?
     
  2. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    If you are single, don't feel bad
    1 Cor 7
    Now concerning the matters about which you wrote: t“It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.”....
    ...I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own gift from God, one of one kind and one of another....Are you free from a wife? Do not seek a wife.... I want you to be free from anxieties.... A married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— 34and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord’s affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband. 35I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord.
     
  3. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    Revelation 14:4
    New International Version
    These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb.
     
  4. Srivijaya

    Srivijaya Active Member

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    I have the impression that early Christianity was a battle ground for the direction the religion would ultimately take. Some wanted it to be a celibate movement, almost akin to monastic vows but without being called monks or nuns, as those terms and structures didn't exist then. Others claimed that converts should be circumcised, whilst others disagreed - also with dietary restrictions etc. Was it to be regarded as a sub-sect of Judaism or something independent?

    Back then it was a loose collection of individuals who had met Jesus and had been inspired by him but obviously had differing ideas of what that meant for them, or what exactly was to be done about it. Jesus never had enough time himself to establish a religion with all its regulations and rules. That was mainly done when Constantine got hold of it and enforced Roman bureaucracy and centralization.
     
  5. Eliab ben Benjamin

    Eliab ben Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    a little late to volunteer, born this way from my mothers womb
     
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  6. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but this is not a physical castration that Christ speaks of in regard to the kingdom. For some, it is simply refraining from sex, refraining from a sexual union. An example of such are those who have homosexual desires and none for the other sex. If they want to please the Lord, they must remain chaste. So, while not born Eunuchs, they choose this way of life to please God and Christ.
     
  7. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Living Dead Girl

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    Don't forget Deuteronomy 23:1, which states that eunuchs may not enter the congregation of the Lord.

    That is not what "eunuch" means.
     
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  8. socharlie

    socharlie Active Member

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    in Matt 6 Jesus talks about transcendental meditation with mantra ("Our Father....") also He mentioned Fasting and later celibacy - (
    Brahmacharya - Wikipedia
    In Matthew 6 Jesus talks about transcendental meditation with mantra (" Our Father...") and fasting. Later he speaks about celibacy - ancients knew how enhance meditation.
    from Strong's:
    definition: (a) a chamberlain, keeper of the bed-chamber of an eastern potentate, eunuch, (b) a eunuch, castrated person, or one who voluntarily abstains from marriage.

    Jesus was Nazarene = Essene , possibly Therapeutae.
     
    #8 socharlie, Jan 11, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
  9. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity simple man
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    I don't agree with standard commentaries on this which is part of the dialogue about divorce and marriage. Jesus talks about divorce with his disciples, and some of them say "Then its better not to marry." They aren't talking about cutting their testicles out necessarily. They could be, but the center of the conversation is about hardness of heart.

    Standard commentaries (such as Matthew Henry) say that Jesus is restricting divorce to cases where the woman or man have committed adultery. This seems like poor commentary. When we open a commentary book we are looking for insights, and this is not insightful. He seems unaware of the mode of the conversation and the issues the people are thinking about.

    What Jesus says is that the reason people get divorced is that their hearts have become hard which causes adultery to occur. (Possibly he is blaming the divorce on the man and saying its the hardness of the man's heart, although its unclear to me for sure on that.) The way it is phrased and because of the way the culture works, it is possible he is blaming the wife's adultery upon the husband although this is unclear to me.

    Whether he is blaming the wife's adultery on the husband's heart or whether it is more general, this explanation of divorce is why the disciples think its better not to marry. They find it a very challenging teaching. Hardness of heart is a serious thing in the law. It means you have not loved the LORD with all of your heart which means you have broken covenant. (Deut 10:16, Deut 30:6) Jesus is making his disciples very uncomfortable with this lesson. Its not that they want to marry and divorce all the time frivolously but its his commentary about hardness of heart. He's just raised the bar for his disciples. Now marriage is a risk to them, because they know relationships get rocky all the time.

    Jesus point were not, however, to place restrictions upon divorce like "You may only get divorced in this situation." or to say "If you get divorced you may not remarry." That would be entirely missing the point. If it were his point, then he would not have been discussing hardness of heart and the cause of adultery, nor would his disciples have said that it was better not to marry. It would simply be a matter of never getting divorced then. Its entirely possible to get married, have a difficult relationship but stay married. What's difficult is the situation Jesus mentions, that if your relationship gets rocky its because your heart is hard, and so you have failed to keep the covenant. That is what makes the disciples question whether they ought to get married in the first place.
     
  10. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    At 72, I now qualify as a eunuch.
     
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  11. Liu

    Liu Active Member

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    Actually the only issue I'd have with this is: It simply won't work for the majority of people, but is included in a religion that claims to be for all people.

    Sure, if you prefer to not have a sexual partner and instead put that energy into your spirituality, then that's great. Basically doing so myself. But I'm asexual, and most people aren't.

    And while I can't tell for sure I'd assume that simply getting castrated won't solve the issue.
    I remember an anecdote about a Hindu or Buddhist (don't remember for sure) who cut off his genitals to free himself from worldly desires and then was told by his guru that by doing so he had forgone his chance in this incarnation to really work through this issue.
     
  12. Gerry

    Gerry Active Member

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    The verses from 1 Corinthians that popeadope quoted seem to say something much different.
     
  13. RabbiO

    RabbiO הרב יונה בן זכריה

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    This what happens when ancient...oops, I mean old..... double oops, I mean mature folks misinterpret word pronunciation. The word you thought you were using is spelled u-n-i-q-u-e, "unique".

    Once again the rabbi had bested Metis, but the rabbi knew that old as Metis was he still had weapons and he knew how to use them. It was clear to the rabbi that a counterattack was coming. The rabbi smiled to himself. Whatever metis planned, the rabbi would be ready.
     
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  14. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    People use various terms many times in non literal ways. This is just standard for the way we speak. In Jesus' case, he is famous, or infamous, for speaking in metaphors, parables.

    Thus, the whole body of Christian teaching when in doubt needs to be included. Paul encouraged singleness, the abstaining from sex by marriage, for those who had this gift. (gift ? imo)
    When then Jesus as a Jew, knew that castration was extremely frowned upon by God, he would never suggest this as an actual physical act.

    This is recognized by Biblical Christian commentaries:
    Matthew 19:12 Commentary - John Gill's Exposition of the Bible
    (See also: Wesley, Barnes)
     
  15. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    The point made by Christ and Paul are that marriage is a distraction from serving the Lord. Thus 'not touching a woman' sexually is encouraged. However, if you read Paul (Jesus does say anything about this directly at least) you will see that for the sake of not committing immorality, marriage is suggested.
    If you want scriptures with this, let me know.
    But, the point is, that Jesus never told us to do this to our bodies as in physical castration. He encouraged people who had the gift - singleness, the abstaining from sex. Indeed, the Bible strictly condemns those who forbid marriage and puts these with apostates.

    See Barnes and Wesley for Matt 19:12, also other Christian commentators.
     
  16. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Living Dead Girl

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    Then how do we decide what is metaphor, what is just a story, and how we know what he was "really saying?"
     
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  17. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    In most cases, Christians have little trouble understanding Jesus.
    Let us consider an extreme quote:
    Matthew 5:
    27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.
    Now, I am not going to tell you what it means imo.

    Please tell me if you think all believers need to become blind or amputees to follow Christ! Let me know what you think it means.
    And, is this another example of Jesus using hyperbole to getting his points across!

     
    #17 Grandliseur, Jan 11, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
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  18. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Well, at least I don't look like a Muppet Rabbi! :p
     
  19. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    But also it's quite possible that Paul thought that Jesus' return was imminent.
     
  20. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    His indication was that those who held back the apostasy, himself, the still living apostles and primary elders, would have to die first:
    2 Thessalonians 2:
    3 Let not any one deceive you in any manner, because it will not be unless the apostasy have first come, and the man of sin have been revealed, the son of perdition; 4 who opposes and exalts himself on high against all called God, or object of veneration; so that he himself sits down in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Do ye not remember that, being yet with you, I said these things to you? 6 And now ye know that which restrains, that he should be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness already works; only there is he who restrains now until he be gone,
     
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