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EU Leaders Agree to Implement CBAM, a Carbon Tariff

Brian2

Veteran Member
Any excuse to get more money for themselves. What a racket.

I doubt that any money is pocketed. It would be used to do help save us from an overheated world and it's consequences.
It will also make it economically good policy for each country to have their own carbon tax within the country so that their exports are not subject to import tariffs in countries that have a carbon tax.
I would not be surprised if the whole system can be manipulated by the greedy and that net carbon zero may not mean that they are not pumping out CO2 but just that they have found loop holes. It is a tax after all and no doubt has loop holes.
Pretty soon we will be growing crops to burn for fuel to charge electric cars and it will be seen as carbon neutral because the CO2 is taken from the atmosphere and then put back into the atmosphere. And people elsewhere will be starving from lack of food because someone else is growing fuel crops.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
Pretty soon we will be growing crops to burn for fuel to charge electric cars and it will be seen as carbon neutral because the CO2 is taken from the atmosphere and then put back into the atmosphere. And people elsewhere will be starving from lack of food because someone else is growing fuel crops.
We are doing that now. We have ethanol added to petrol and we have bio diesel. Fortunately most of us have also recognized that as not a good plan and it isn't developed or increased further.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
We are doing that now. We have ethanol added to petrol and we have bio diesel. Fortunately most of us have also recognized that as not a good plan and it isn't developed or increased further.
Ethanol does have other positive effects. Cars produce less.pollution, not counting carbon, when using it. But I do agree that it is not as carbon neutral as advertised and the food issue is huge.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Like any good leftist, I was for free trade most of the time while the right was mostly protectionist. Seems that the tables have turned. Or is it more that it is protectionism in other countries than the one you happen to live in?

It's been the reverse in America. In America, free trade has generally been supported by the right wing, while it was the pro-union left wing which supported protectionism. Clinton reversed Democratic Party policy by supporting NAFTA and changing the direction of the party from being the party of working people to what it is now.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
My first thought

Clearly they (who make such rules) don't care about pollution, but they are good pretenders, IMO

Definitely good pretenders.


They just want the money and the means to keep their positions of power.

It's universal.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I doubt that any money is pocketed. It would be used to do help save us from an overheated world and it's consequences.
It will also make it economically good policy for each country to have their own carbon tax within the country so that their exports are not subject to import tariffs in countries that have a carbon tax.
I would not be surprised if the whole system can be manipulated by the greedy and that net carbon zero may not mean that they are not pumping out CO2 but just that they have found loop holes. It is a tax after all and no doubt has loop holes.
Pretty soon we will be growing crops to burn for fuel to charge electric cars and it will be seen as carbon neutral because the CO2 is taken from the atmosphere and then put back into the atmosphere. And people elsewhere will be starving from lack of food because someone else is growing fuel crops.

Oh it's pocketed all right.

Its like laundering schemes. Goes through their cronies and it comes back as campaign money and after the election, it goes back to their cronies with interest and gets sent back next election.

Politics 101
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
When trump levied $80 billion on imports i didn't see you objecting then .

Interestingly evey European citizen is in favour Europe implementing a carbon tariff on imports. And one American doesn't like the idea.

The problem Trump saw was the unfair world trade arrangements in 2016, where the US had very little tariffs, while most of the world's countries were protectionists. This world arrangement caused many US companies to go overseas, manufacture there, and sell their products back to the US, without tariffs; net profit. Trump simply leveled the playing field; tit for tat, to encourage companies to come home, instead of linger abroad, due to the bad trade policies of the world union, Democrats.

If you have been reading the news, countries in the EU were complaining to President Biden for practicing unfair trade practices. These complaints were connected to the misnamed Inflation Reduction Bill that the Democrats passed. It was causing inflation and trade problems in Europe. This new news about a carbon tax on imports may be a retaliation, that will make inflation go up further and could lure US business back overseas.

Businesses will not absorb this latest government rip off. They will pass it on to the consumers, who will now have to pay even more, for less. Lefties are tone deaf when it comes to the impact of their bonehead ideology on the common man. They design with middle man skim in mind.

There was an article I read from National Geographic that said scientists found the oldest intact DNA sample, close to the North Pole. It turned out that several million years ago, the Arctic region was teaming with trees and wild life. The earth was much warmer several million year ago, than it is today, all without fossil fuels to blame. This gives us a glimpse into the future.

The last ice age would appear after the time period of this DNA, and the earth would cool, without man, to where glaciers would cover from the North Pole to NYC. The earth then warmed from that extreme, to the modern times all by itself. It has warmed and cooled many times, all by itself. The Left is using a natural warming cycle to manipulate people out of their hard earned money.

I believe in climate change, but natural climate change. Natural climate changed can be proven to have occurred many time via hard evidence of many such episodes spanning a billion years of data. Man made climate change has never occurred before. Science needs two data points by its own philosophy; test and then verify. This means the Left is violating the philosophy of science; cheating. Propaganda and fear does not take the place of a second set of hard data to show manmade is even possible. Natural climate change has dozen of data points. So that theory is better in terms of verifiable science; no emotional sentiment and no propaganda needed.

Say hypothetically, we were in a natural climate change cycle. What actions would we take take so we will be be prepared for the warmup? Are these actions different from those actions suggested by the non scientific and political theory of manmade climate change? Are we walking down the wrong road in terms of preparation by blaming the wrong things?

For example, the faux science assumed an active hurricane season in the Atlantic in 2022 due to climate change But it was a dud this year. Nature had another path in mind that was not with the faux science. Their predictive power is not that great. It turned out we are in a natural La Niña cycle, where cold water builds in the Pacific Ocean, even with global warming. How does the earth do that? This natural earth cycle controlled the hurricane season, not the fear of Mobil and Exon or the carbon credit scam. How many time do these experts, get to get it wrong, before we dismiss them?
 

We Never Know

No Slack
The Carbon Border Adjustment Mechanism CBAM will become law in Europe. Imports of some goods like steel, aluminium and cement will be slapped with a tariff equalling what a European producer would have to pay in carbon certificates. There will be exceptions for goods for which an equal tax has already been paid and there are discussions for discounts for developing countries.

Seems to cover several things...

"It will initially apply to imports including iron and steel, cement, aluminium, fertilisers and electricity as well as hydrogen.

Downstream it will also include
screws and bolts and similar articles made from iron or steel.

Other downstream products could be added following a review carried out before the end of the transition period. The inclusion of organic chemicals and plastics will also be assessed before the end of the transition period."

EU seals agreement on world's first carbon tariff


Based on who pays a tariff, IMO everything in the EU will be going up for the consumer to cover the tax the importer has to pay

"A tariff is a tax imposed on foreign-made goods, paid by the importing business to its home country's government"
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
He's just mindlessly regurgitating swill fed to him by lobbyists and their pocketed politicians.
Yeah, I must admit I find that sort of kneejerk, cheapjack cynicism fairly contemptible. These people aren't capable of joined up thinking, it seems. It obviously takes a lot of tax to operate a well-run government in the modern age. It's childish in the extreme to think it all happens by magic.

As a matter of fact, the executive of the EU has no tax-raising powers. This is an agreement among the member states that they will each implement this new tax. The proceeds will get used by the executive arms of the various national governments, many of whom run a lot of programmes to support the switch to low carbon electricity, transport and so on - all off which cost money too.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Seems to cover several things...

"It will initially apply to imports including iron and steel, cement, aluminium, fertilisers and electricity as well as hydrogen.

Downstream it will also include
screws and bolts and similar articles made from iron or steel.

Other downstream products could be added following a review carried out before the end of the transition period. The inclusion of organic chemicals and plastics will also be assessed before the end of the transition period."

EU seals agreement on world's first carbon tariff


Based on who pays a tariff, IMO everything in the EU will be going up for the consumer to cover the tax the importer has to pay

"A tariff is a tax imposed on foreign-made goods, paid by the importing business to its home country's government"
Maybe, but prices will only go up if there is no price competition from other sources. If there is, the duty gets funded out of the profits of the supplier.

Certainly, one way or another, the transition to a low carbon economy will cost. But it has to be done, obviously.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
The problem Trump saw was the unfair world trade arrangements in 2016, where the US had very little tariffs, while most of the world's countries were protectionists. This world arrangement caused many US companies to go overseas, manufacture there, and sell their products back to the US, without tariffs; net profit. Trump simply leveled the playing field; tit for tat, to encourage companies to come home, instead of linger abroad, due to the bad trade policies of the world union, Democrats.

If you have been reading the news, countries in the EU were complaining to President Biden for practicing unfair trade practices. These complaints were connected to the misnamed Inflation Reduction Bill that the Democrats passed. It was causing inflation and trade problems in Europe. This new news about a carbon tax on imports may be a retaliation, that will make inflation go up further and could lure US business back overseas.

Businesses will not absorb this latest government rip off. They will pass it on to the consumers, who will now have to pay even more, for less. Lefties are tone deaf when it comes to the impact of their bonehead ideology on the common man. They design with middle man skim in mind.

There was an article I read from National Geographic that said scientists found the oldest intact DNA sample, close to the North Pole. It turned out that several million years ago, the Arctic region was teaming with trees and wild life. The earth was much warmer several million year ago, than it is today, all without fossil fuels to blame. This gives us a glimpse into the future.

The last ice age would appear after the time period of this DNA, and the earth would cool, without man, to where glaciers would cover from the North Pole to NYC. The earth then warmed from that extreme, to the modern times all by itself. It has warmed and cooled many times, all by itself. The Left is using a natural warming cycle to manipulate people out of their hard earned money.

I believe in climate change, but natural climate change. Natural climate changed can be proven to have occurred many time via hard evidence of many such episodes spanning a billion years of data. Man made climate change has never occurred before. Science needs two data points by its own philosophy; test and then verify. This means the Left is violating the philosophy of science; cheating. Propaganda and fear does not take the place of a second set of hard data to show manmade is even possible. Natural climate change has dozen of data points. So that theory is better in terms of verifiable science; no emotional sentiment and no propaganda needed.

Say hypothetically, we were in a natural climate change cycle. What actions would we take take so we will be be prepared for the warmup? Are these actions different from those actions suggested by the non scientific and political theory of manmade climate change? Are we walking down the wrong road in terms of preparation by blaming the wrong things?

For example, the faux science assumed an active hurricane season in the Atlantic in 2022 due to climate change But it was a dud this year. Nature had another path in mind that was not with the faux science. Their predictive power is not that great. It turned out we are in a natural La Niña cycle, where cold water builds in the Pacific Ocean, even with global warming. How does the earth do that? This natural earth cycle controlled the hurricane season, not the fear of Mobil and Exon or the carbon credit scam. How many time do these experts, get to get it wrong, before we dismiss them?


And the problem the EU sees is that many countries are not doing their bit by skipping carbon credit levies. This tariff levels the playing field. I.e. exactly what trump did.

And im not arguing on climate change, the evidence that currently it is man made is overwhelming.
 
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