1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured EU Court upholds Belgian ban on kosher and halal slaughter

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Altfish, Dec 20, 2020.

  1. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    Messages:
    16,765
    Ratings:
    +10,089
    Religion:
    Sanathana Dharma [The Eternal Religion]
    Usually such decisions are all about money, so your idea makes most sense to me. Although I think the percentage of Belgium meat producers is much higher than Halal/Kosher (only 500.000 Muslims of the total 11.500.000 people; ca. 4%). So, it can't be about the money (Belgium vs Halal) I think

    Furthermore such laws are already in other countries in Europe, and those countries are quite open to other cultures I think (esp. Sweden)
    And I know that in Holland they (government) mentioned some month ago, that it would be better that we (in Holland) shift towards vegetarianism. And since a few month all the supermarkets tripled (or more) their vegetarian assortment. So, this for once might be a genuine "care for animals", although that's hard to believe for me. Esp. knowing that In Holland anesthesia is not required

    From Hinduism POV I learned that vegetarianism is best for spiritual minded people, although one can't tell e.g. Eskimos to eat vegetarian of course

    I was curious which countries killed animals with/without anesthesia (lists in spoiler)
    upload_2020-12-21_15-36-37.png

    upload_2020-12-21_15-29-39.png
     
  2. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    50,204
    Ratings:
    +14,897
    Religion:
    not a theist
    what happened in 1958?
     
  3. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    Messages:
    16,765
    Ratings:
    +10,089
    Religion:
    Sanathana Dharma [The Eternal Religion]
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2013
    Messages:
    21,965
    Ratings:
    +5,736
    Religion:
    Islam
    1. Cant the animal be tranquillised or something?
    2. Also, why would this go against the Halal system?

    I am no expert on this topic, that's why I am asking.
     
  5. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    50,204
    Ratings:
    +14,897
    Religion:
    not a theist
    Your first source says that in the US anesthesia has not been required since 1958 and yet the act you presented requiring anesthesia went into effect in 1958.....

    Another misleading thing about your first source is that said source makes it appear that before 1958 the US had some form of anesthesia and it was removed in 1958
     
  6. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    Messages:
    16,765
    Ratings:
    +10,089
    Religion:
    Sanathana Dharma [The Eternal Religion]
    Yes, I saw that too. It's not the first time I see errors on the Internet (at least the year was correct, so the smart reader can find the error)
     
  7. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    50,204
    Ratings:
    +14,897
    Religion:
    not a theist
    Was your source translated to English before you posted it?
     
  8. Heyo

    Heyo Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2019
    Messages:
    11,573
    Ratings:
    +10,756
    Religion:
    none
    Religious freedom is a right in the EU, getting exceptions built in otherwise universal laws is a privilege. It's in the name, privus legis, private law. And that privilege can be revoked, as Belgium did and the EU court of Justice has confirmed that Belgium's action was lawful.
    The state has every right to introduce new laws. Sometimes religions are granted the privilege to disobey a law without repercussion, sometimes not. To get an exception requires exceptionally good reasons.
    I agree that it's not a good reason. But that's not the point. The point is that you think you are entitled to an exception because you are such a special snowflake. You are not.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  9. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    Messages:
    16,765
    Ratings:
    +10,089
    Religion:
    Sanathana Dharma [The Eternal Religion]
    It was a Dutch wiki, and I copy/Pasted the link in Google Translate, to make it easier for English people to read (Dutch site had the error)
     
  10. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2014
    Messages:
    7,275
    Ratings:
    +5,249
    Religion:
    Jewish
    I agree and stress the balance you indicate -- "informed by the science we have now" cannot mean automatically shifting from tradition. It can mean a bunch of things and might include making changes, but not as a matter of an imperative or obligation. There seems to be discussion over whether an animal can be properly schechted when asleep. If the answer is "yes" then I would just bring the cows into my 12th grade elective class and they should be asleep (based on my students' reactions) in a couple of minutes.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  11. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Messages:
    41,985
    Ratings:
    +16,629
    Religion:
    Judaism
    In all honesty, I think we all agree that all of this discussion pertains to the proper treatment of dumb animals, and that no one who has benefitted from one of your 12th grade classes could possibly fall into that category.

    On the other hand, perhaps, when balancing science and tradition, the idea of khumrah might suggest extra caution when it comes to inflicting pain and taking life.
     
  12. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    50,204
    Ratings:
    +14,897
    Religion:
    not a theist
    I was wondering if the confusion was caused by the translation....
     
  13. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2017
    Messages:
    4,834
    Ratings:
    +988
    Religion:
    Disciple of Jesus
  14. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    215,700
    Ratings:
    +82,708
    Religion:
    Atheist
  15. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2014
    Messages:
    14,473
    Ratings:
    +13,070
    Religion:
    Humanist
    I'm no expert at this but surely, speed of death has a lot to do with it and 'bleeding out' is not fast.
     
  16. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2019
    Messages:
    14,664
    Ratings:
    +12,384
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Good.

    No comment.
     
  17. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2019
    Messages:
    14,664
    Ratings:
    +12,384
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Neither of these two are actually used as an argument to justify the ban.

    Try again.
     
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...