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Featured EU Court upholds Belgian ban on kosher and halal slaughter

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Altfish, Dec 20, 2020.

  1. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

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    This was posted in an Abrahamic Religion DIR thread by #Shaul - I thought it needed a wider audience.

    The EU Court has upheld a Belgian law which requires an animal be stunned before being slaughtered. Such stunning violates the rules of kosher and halal slaughter.

    EU court upholds Belgian ban on kosher ritual slaughter

    Not mentioned in the article, such stunning of the animal is NOT more humane. The stunned animal experiences more pain that way according to Jewish experts, not less.
     
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  2. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    Yeah...like they are gonna be truthful about stunning.
    Ref....
    How are animals stunned prior to slaughter? – RSPCA Knowledgebase
     
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  3. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein I'm not deaf, I'm just a real bad listener
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    Good.
     
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  4. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    I would think that animal husbandry or zoological experts would be better equipped to say on this point.
     
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  5. epronovost

    epronovost Well-Known Member

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    I personnaly think it's a reasonnable decision. Of course, I don't highly value religious rituals in food preperation and I do value more highly the idea of affording the most painless death reasonnably possible to the animals we have raised for slaughter. I don't think it strictly prevents the practice of those religion since eating meat isn't mandatory to those faith and not respecting scrupulously the requirements of halal and kosher practice doesn't make you less Jew or Muslim in my opinion.
     
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  6. Shaul

    Shaul Well-Known Member
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    Using a bolt to crack some cow’s skull open is not painless to the animal. Nor does it cause immediate unconscious. Many animals need to have be subjected to repeated blows to the head while they reel in agony. Even calling this procedure “stunning” is wrong. It relies on splitting the skull of the animal to induce lapsing into unconsciousness. Electric stunning is even worse.

    There are scientific studies which confirm the kosher slaughter is less painful to the animals.
     
  7. epronovost

    epronovost Well-Known Member

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    Quote them. All the studies I have found except two produced by non-expert in non-peer review journals claim the opposite.
     
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  8. Shaul

    Shaul Well-Known Member
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    And many of them agree with the Jewish experts. Many of those that don’t have a financial incentive from the non-kosher meat industry to use the cheaper methods.
     
  9. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    How reliable are biased "experts"? I have seen videos of kosher and halal slaughter. I will not link any, but it is clear that the animal is conscious for some time after its neck is sliced open. An unconscious animal would not feel any pain. Neither is a pretty sight to watch. And there are I am sure failed stunnings I have no idea what the stats are on those. Perhaps that is the basis of the claims of the Jewish experts. But without a clear link it is hard to say.
     
  10. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Why would you present something like this with zero supporting evidence?
     
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  11. epronovost

    epronovost Well-Known Member

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    Kosher might actually be cheaper (thouggh both are probably pretty much just as expansive) since the methods of execution are the same and the infrastructures are the same, but you are simply removing the stunning process and adding a blessing in kosher and halal slaughterhouse. Animals still die of having their throat slashed except pigs who are often killed by carbon gaz inhalation (which is more painless than having you throat slit) and cows who get their brain destroyed by a bolt through the skull which is immediate compared to a death by bleeding which takes about a dozen seconds.
     
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  12. Shaul

    Shaul Well-Known Member
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    No
    No, I don’t think I will for you. If you haven’t already sought them out for consideration that indicates you are either ill informed for closed minded on the subject.
     
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  13. Shaul

    Shaul Well-Known Member
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    No it isn’t. The costs of producing kosher meat are greater than non-kosher methods. One reason is that many animals are rejected after slaughter due to disqualification after further inspection.
     
  14. Flankerl

    Flankerl Well-Known Member

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    I love how failed stuns or shocks are always ignored when it's about kosher and halal slaughter.
    When you ask the animal rights groups you learn that quite a lot of times the stun or shock fails to render the animal unconscious.
    Then they obviously apply a second stun or shock.
    Then there are the cases where the animal regains consciousness and isn't stunned or shocked again.

    At the end of the day it's only about optics.
    Kosher and Halal slaughter looks "yucky" with all the blood.
    The stun or shock is clean and therefore marketable.


    You can cut a chickens head off and it will run around as if it was alive.

    Movement =/= consciousness
     
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  15. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    I have sought these out. I was never too impressed with the arguments on the side of the kosher and halal people. Most of the time stunned animals are clearly unconscious and it is a much more humane method. Rarely there are botched stunnings. I won't deny that. Since the law is now changed that puts the burden of proof upon the halal and kosher butchers. Merely refusing to support wild claims is tantamount to admitting that one is wrong.
     
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  16. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    You could link some.
    Nonetheless, it's certainly possible to kill animals
    more humanely than Judaism & Islam require.
    Stunning makes sense...& of course should be
    practiced with care, & backed up by science.
     
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  17. epronovost

    epronovost Well-Known Member

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    So you actually don't have any study from expert in peer review journals to back up your claims? And you won't do it for others either.
     
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  18. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Leaderless Animal

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    "Evidence clearly indicates that slaughter without pre-stunning can cause unnecessary suffering.
    All Shechita (Jewish) and some Halal (Muslim) slaughter involves cutting the animal's throat without stunning the animal first (pre-stunning)."

    Religious slaughter | rspca.org.uk
     
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  19. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    ...and that is why one becomes a Vegetarian...:p



    I think animals wealfare is something relevant, btw...​
     
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  20. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    Yours is a faulty comparison.
    Chicken - Head removed. Running body has no brain for pain to afflict.
    Cow with slit throat - Brain still functioning until blood runs out.
     
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