Ethnic/Racial Fluidity?

[YmirGF]

Simple question, as I am a simple minded person.

If gender is a social construct and can therefore be chosen, why then, cannot ethnicity/race be similarly chosen? Following the same guidelines, as with the gender construct, isn't ethnicity/race also a social construct, in exactly the same way for exactly the same reasons?

Can a Black female become an Asian male?
Can a First Nation's Two Spirit become a white female?

This might sound silly, but not so long ago most of the population thought the gender question was rather silly

Thoughts?

If so, why do you think so.
If not, why do you think this is rubbish?

I'd particularly like to hear from the gender fluid crowd to get their take on this. (It would seem to be a natural progression from gender fluidity.)

 

[Stanyon]

I tried being a couch potato once, got bored.

 

[crossfire]

Simple question, as I am a simple minded person.

If gender is a social construct and can therefore be chosen, why then, cannot ethnicity/race be similarly chosen? Following the same guidelines, as with the gender construct, isn't ethnicity/race also a social construct, in exactly the same way for exactly the same reasons?

Can a Black female become an Asian male?
Can a First Nation's Two Spirit become a white female?

This might sound silly, but not so long ago most of the population thought the gender question was rather silly

Thoughts?

If so, why do you think so.
If not, why do you think this is rubbish?

I'd particularly like to hear from the gender fluid crowd to get their take on this. (It would seem to be a natural progression from gender fluidity.)

Ethnicity and race aren't the same thing, just as gender and sex are not the same thing. Ethnicity and gender are the more flexible social constructs.

 

[crossfire]

Ethnicity and race aren't the same thing, just as gender and sex are not the same thing. Ethnicity and gender are the more flexible social constructs.

One example would be Hispanic: Hispanic is not limited by race.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Almost everyonr today has some mixture of ethnicity in their background. Everyone should be free to call themselves anything they want. Other people may not necessarily believe them but they can still do it.

 

[Nakosis]

Simple question, as I am a simple minded person.

If gender is a social construct and can therefore be chosen, why then, cannot ethnicity/race be similarly chosen? Following the same guidelines, as with the gender construct, isn't ethnicity/race also a social construct, in exactly the same way for exactly the same reasons?

Can a Black female become an Asian male?
Can a First Nation's Two Spirit become a white female?

This might sound silly, but not so long ago most of the population thought the gender question was rather silly

Thoughts?

If so, why do you think so.
If not, why do you think this is rubbish?

I'd particularly like to hear from the gender fluid crowd to get their take on this. (It would seem to be a natural progression from gender fluidity.)

'Transracial' man, born white, says he feels Filipino

How about a 2 fer... Race and gender?

“If someone feels that they feel at home with a certain religion, a certain race, a certain culture, I think that, if that’s who they really feel inside, life is about finding out who you are," she said. "The more knowledge you have of yourself, the happier you can be"

She continued: “And, as long as it’s not hurting yourself or anyone else, I don’t see a problem with that.”

 

[BSM1]

Simple question, as I am a simple minded person.

If gender is a social construct and can therefore be chosen, why then, cannot ethnicity/race be similarly chosen? Following the same guidelines, as with the gender construct, isn't ethnicity/race also a social construct, in exactly the same way for exactly the same reasons?

Can a Black female become an Asian male?
Can a First Nation's Two Spirit become a white female?

This might sound silly, but not so long ago most of the population thought the gender question was rather silly

Thoughts?

If so, why do you think so.
If not, why do you think this is rubbish?

I'd particularly like to hear from the gender fluid crowd to get their take on this. (It would seem to be a natural progression from gender fluidity.)

Or height. I want to be way taller...

 

[LuisDantas]

One example would be Hispanic: Hispanic is not limited by race.

Darn right it is not.

I have noted in the past that we Brazilians, when visiting the USA, are given forms to fill where we are helpfully told that we are Latinos by ethnicity.

It is unavoidably funny, since ethnically we are all over the place and often have little idea of how to cathegorize ourselves. I don't think more than 20% or so (if that much) considers themselves latinos. Many definitely are not.

 

[suncowiam]

Or height. I want to be way taller...

In your case, don't you mean younger.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Ethnicity and race aren't the same thing, just as gender and sex are not the same thing. Ethnicity and gender are the more flexible social constructs.

[/thread]

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Simple question, as I am a simple minded person.

If gender is a social construct and can therefore be chosen, why then, cannot ethnicity/race be similarly chosen? Following the same guidelines, as with the gender construct, isn't ethnicity/race also a social construct, in exactly the same way for exactly the same reasons?

Can a Black female become an Asian male?
Can a First Nation's Two Spirit become a white female?

This might sound silly, but not so long ago most of the population thought the gender question was rather silly

Thoughts?

If so, why do you think so.
If not, why do you think this is rubbish?

I'd particularly like to hear from the gender fluid crowd to get their take on this. (It would seem to be a natural progression from gender fluidity.)

There is more to ethnicity than race. Consider, for example, an Asian person adopted from a young age and raised by a European family as any other child in the family or community would be. Racially, that child is Asian. Ethnically? Not so much.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

As far as I'm aware, gender being purely a social construct is something more akin to the time of second wave feminism, but isn't really a modern concept. Gender being a mixture of psychology, physiology and social natures. (Much like homosexuality was seen as only nature or only nurture by the two different sides of the coin but is now believed to be a much more nuanced blend.)
This quora discussion helped me with this but I am no expert in this field.
https://www.quora.com/If-gender-is-...uct-why-would-someone-identify-as-transgender

Also there is a ton more social baggage with the idea of so called race fluidity, without the psychological or physiological differences that trans and fluid has with gender.
The problem with saying race is fluid is that it only applies to white people

 

[BSM1]

In your case, don't you mean younger.

Oh, no....been there, done that--and survived. Don't think I want to push my luck. Taller's fine for now.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Simple question, as I am a simple minded person.

If gender is a social construct and can therefore be chosen, why then, cannot ethnicity/race be similarly chosen? Following the same guidelines, as with the gender construct, isn't ethnicity/race also a social construct, in exactly the same way for exactly the same reasons?

Can a Black female become an Asian male?
Can a First Nation's Two Spirit become a white female?

This might sound silly, but not so long ago most of the population thought the gender question was rather silly

Thoughts?

If so, why do you think so.
If not, why do you think this is rubbish?

I'd particularly like to hear from the gender fluid crowd to get their take on this. (It would seem to be a natural progression from gender fluidity.)

This is actually a good question @YmirGF

Let me eat my subway sandwich and ponder a response........

(An hour later)

Given the popularity of Rachel Dolzeal it would appear on the surface that race as well for some individuals can be fluid, but from a realistic standpoint subscribing to an ethnic group is more rigid than anything. The case of Dolzeal is more of a psychological issue concerning her esteem along with self-identity is more at issue than anything. Unfortunately in the states, the "one drop rule" along with subsequent experiences of racism stemming from the Jim Crow era many bi-racial children have aligned themselves with black identity. I think ethnicity is one of those thing you cannot change no matter how deeply a person wants to. Sadly many young Japanese girls are looking to have eurocentric features but are not and will not be accepted as Caucasian. The delusion of changing one's ethnicity is just that, a delusion.

 

[crossfire]

Darn right it is not.

I have noted in the past that we Brazilians, when visiting the USA, are given forms to fill where we are helpfully told that we are Latinos by ethnicity.

It is unavoidably funny, since ethnically we are all over the place and often have little idea of how to cathegorize ourselves. I don't think more than 20% or so (if that much) considers themselves latinos. Many definitely are not.

That is funny! Brazil would be a perfect example for the OP to consider when asking the question!

 

[Nakosis]

Simple question, as I am a simple minded person.

If gender is a social construct and can therefore be chosen, why then, cannot ethnicity/race be similarly chosen? Following the same guidelines, as with the gender construct, isn't ethnicity/race also a social construct, in exactly the same way for exactly the same reasons?

Can a Black female become an Asian male?
Can a First Nation's Two Spirit become a white female?

This might sound silly, but not so long ago most of the population thought the gender question was rather silly

Thoughts?

If so, why do you think so.
If not, why do you think this is rubbish?

I'd particularly like to hear from the gender fluid crowd to get their take on this. (It would seem to be a natural progression from gender fluidity.)

Identity politics is the foundation of many people's reality. If white males were able to freely choose their identity, who would folks be able to blame the evils of society on?

It must be horrifying for them to imagining not being able to identify a white male as a white male. I suspect this is one stereotype the woke crowd will fight tooth and nail to keep in place.

 

[LuisDantas]

There is more to ethnicity than race. Consider, for example, an Asian person adopted from a young age and raised by a European family as any other child in the family or community would be. Racially, that child is Asian. Ethnically? Not so much.

I think you mean "culturally", not "ethnically".

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Gender dysphoria can be observed on a biochemical level.
I don't imagine a scientific search for race dysphoria is going to be very eventful.

Race is a fluid political construct.
Terms which are useful are used in convention to sort people into groups are made to seem like laws of nature through hegemony and then are used to marginalize and exploit different groups.

Whether that means Greeks and ""Barbarians""
Or "Whites" and "Blacks" is just a matter of who is being politically oppressed.

I'm inclined to say that they are separate based in where these labels come from.
Gender differentiation is typically related to dysphoria and/or expression.

I am open to change my mind though.

I disagree. A white person cannot be black....Being black, African-American, or whatever traverses simple categorization because it's about the collective experience most Africans and African-Americans face. The Dolezeal situation is a good example. She claims to be black because she (and this is my pure opinion) used her white privilege to make the concept of race fluid. Remember this was the same woman who sued an HBCU for racial discrimination for being white now she is black.

Similarly, a white Dutchman from South Africa cannot in my opinion claim African heritage because from a historical standpoint given the existence of apartheid and subsequent racism, a person of South Afriican origin who speaks Afrikaan, does not share the same experiences as those that look like me, nor the culture, nor the music.

People often say "you've never been to Africa so ow do you claim to be African-American?" Again, it is not about living in a continent to be associated with the culture its about sharing the same experiences as the culture. Put me and a Congolese person in the deep south, I bet we'll both get called a ""n*****" the same way, we'll be discriminated the same way and we will be treated the same way

 

[Nakosis]

There is more to ethnicity than race. Consider, for example, an Asian person adopted from a young age and raised by a European family as any other child in the family or community would be. Racially, that child is Asian. Ethnically? Not so much.

How does a "European" family raise their kids?

There's got to be a butt-load of differences from family to family. I imagine this is true of any family of any mixture of race, culture, nationality you care to name.

Max Weber maintained that ethnic groups were künstlich (artificial, i.e. a social construct) because they were based on a subjective belief in shared Gemeinschaft (community). Secondly, this belief in shared Gemeinschaft did not create the group; the group created the belief. Third, group formation resulted from the drive to monopolise power and status. This was contrary to the prevailing naturalist belief of the time, which held that socio-cultural and behavioural differences between peoples stemmed from inherited traits and tendencies derived from common descent, then called "race".

Ethnic group - Wikipedia

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

How does a "European" family raise their kids?

There's got to be a butt-load of differences from family to family. I imagine this is true of any family of any mixture of race, culture, nationality you care to name.

Max Weber maintained that ethnic groups were künstlich (artificial, i.e. a social construct) because they were based on a subjective belief in shared Gemeinschaft (community). Secondly, this belief in shared Gemeinschaft did not create the group; the group created the belief. Third, group formation resulted from the drive to monopolise power and status. This was contrary to the prevailing naturalist belief of the time, which held that socio-cultural and behavioural differences between peoples stemmed from inherited traits and tendencies derived from common descent, then called "race".

Ethnic group - Wikipedia

or course there are differences between families. Different regions still have different cultures though, so I'm not sure what your point is?