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Eternal Life?

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Religions speak of the timelessness of the Divine. God is "eternal". In Christian beliefs, believers are promised "eternal life". But what does that mean? It's generally assumed to mean that as one day passes to the next in a linear progression, that this will continue infinitely into the future beyond our mortal deaths, ages and ages, forever passing behind us, and us forever into the future. I would say it's natural for us to think in terms like this, since that is the experience of our daily realities. But is this what eternal means? Forever marching forward creating a linear timeline?

I would make the case that thinking is confused when it comes the the timelessness of the Divine, that which exists without beginning or end. That timelessness exists in every moment, fully. It's difficult for our minds to think in terms like this as we are always thinking about the future or recalling the past. Yesterday is behind us. Tomorrow is ahead of us. But the overlooked reality is that we only live in the present moment, and thoughts about the past or the future, are only occurring right now, this second, and not anytime in the future or past. All there is is Now.

So what then is Eternal Life? Not something in the future, but something in the present, right now. To be fully present in the moment, not just strictly concentrating on one thing, but mindfully Aware, is to be in that "timelessness". That "Eternal Life", is Now. And when fully Aware, it is seen and experienced as fully, infinitely Present in all things. Eternal Life, is something within everything.

So, drawing from the Christian tradition in the use of that language, I would say that the deeper meaning is not that you keep going on and on forever in a immortal version of yourself, after you have died in this body. I see those as bit of a "hint" at what it is, but seen from the linear, dualist mind. Yet God is timeless, and thus, non-linear. What I hear is the deeper truth, what the metaphor of "life after death" is meant to point to. That is, that "Eternal Life", is the Divine itself. Is it the reality of God. And it is our participation within that, fully in the timeless Now. Aware and Awake.

To me this is the real underlying message of the Christian faith, using dualistic metaphors to speak to reality of the Eternal Life that is timelessly Present, through all ages, without beginning or end, ever and always Now. This is what Enlightenment is. This is what "Salvation" is a metaphor for. "Except you be born again, you cannot see the kingdom of God". You Wake up, and see. You experience Reality fully in the present.

I've just been processing my thoughts lately, which have undergone some radical transformation since my early days introduced to Christian thought through a very narrow, literal, fundamentalist perspective. I just felt inspired at the moment to share a thought I just had, reflecting the evolution of my views from those early days. Thoughts and feedback are encouraged.
 
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sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Part of my awakening involved looking at an "Eternal Now" poster I had on the wall and thinking - there's something profoundly true about that phrase.
 

chinu

chinu
Thirst doesn’t sets down by mere repeating the word “Water” again and again.The word “Water” is something else, whereas “Water” itself is something else.

Similarly, the word “eternal” is something else, whereas “eternal” itself is something else.

The one who drinks, knows it.

Don’t think it’s kinda a new poetry, or you can :)
 
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Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
Religions speak of the timelessness of the Divine. God is "eternal". In Christian beliefs, believers are promised "eternal life". But what does that mean? It's generally assumed to mean that as one day passes to the next in a linear progression, that this will continue infinitely into the future beyond our mortal deaths, ages and ages, forever passing behind us, and us forever into the future. I would say it's natural for us to think in terms like this, since that is the experience of our daily realities. But is this what eternal means? Forever marching forward creating a linear timeline?

I would make the case that thinking is confused when it comes the the timelessness of the Divine, that which exists without beginning or end. That timelessness exists in every moment, fully. It's difficult for our minds to think in terms like this as we are always thinking about the future or recalling the past. Yesterday is behind us. Tomorrow is ahead of us. But the overlooked reality is that we only live in the present moment, and thoughts about the past or the future, are only occurring right now, this second, and not anytime in the future or past. All there is is Now.

So what then is Eternal Life? Not something in the future, but something in the present, right now. To be fully present in the moment, not just strictly concentrating on one thing, but mindfully Aware, is to be in that "timelessness". That "Eternal Life", is Now. And when fully Aware, it is seen and experienced as fully, infinitely Present in all things. Eternal Life, is something within everything.

So, drawing from the Christian tradition in the use of that language, I would say that the deeper meaning is not that you keep going on and on forever in a immortal version of yourself, after you have died in this body. I see those as bit of a "hint" at what it is, but seen from the linear, dualist mind. Yet God is timeless, and thus, non-linear. What I hear is the deeper truth, what the metaphor of "life after death" is meant to point to. That is, that "Eternal Life", is the Divine itself. Is it the reality of God. And it is our participation within that, fully in the timeless Now. Aware and Awake.

To me this is the real underlying message of the Christian faith, using dualistic metaphors to speak to reality of the Eternal Life that is timelessly Present, through all ages, without beginning or end, ever and always Now. This is what Enlightenment is. This is what "Salvation" is a metaphor for. "Except you be born again, you cannot see the kingdom of God". You Wake up, and see. You experience Reality fully in the present.

I've just been processing my thoughts lately, which have undergone some radical transformation since my early days introduced to Christian thought through a very narrow, literal, fundamentalist perspective. I just felt inspired at the moment to share a thought I just had, reflecting the evolution of my views from those early days. Thoughts and feedback are encouraged.

I appreciate this perspective. I wish more Christians embraced this kind of interpretation rather than a literalist one.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I appreciate this perspective. I wish more Christians embraced this kind of interpretation rather than a literalist one.
I do too. It would make it easier to relate. :) I mean to me, it adds some depth and dimensionality to it. But the standard, dualistic, and largely literalistic view of these things only carries me so far. It needs a broader, more nuanced understanding for it to speak to me.
 

Rizdek

Member
Religions speak of the timelessness of the Divine. God is "eternal"...

I would make the case that thinking is confused when it comes the the timelessness of the Divine, that which exists without beginning or end. That timelessness exists in every moment, fully. It's difficult for our minds to think in terms like this as we are always thinking about the future or recalling the past...

So what then is Eternal Life? ...

So, drawing from the Christian tradition in the use of that language, I would say that the deeper meaning is not that you keep going on and on forever in a immortal version of yourself, after you have died in this body. I see those as bit of a "hint" at what it is, but seen from the linear, dualist mind...

When I was much younger and still a Christian, I never really pondered what eternal life would/could be like or even if it actually made sense at all. I just pictured 'life' like what I already knew, but in some sort of never ending existence where...'moth and rust do not corrupt' and 'where neither sickness for sorrow exist;' ...that kind of picturesque speech. It wasn't until I pretty much left those beliefs behind...or was in the process of leaving them behind ~40 years ago that I began considering the nuts and bolts logistics of 'eternal life.' I knew...and know today...people, close relatives, who believe firmly that when they die, they'll 'rejoin them in a song' meaning they envision they'll rejoin loved ones and relatives who've gone on before and enjoy eternal communion with them and God, praising Jesus who is sitting at the right hand of the Father.

I realize they know it's figurative speech for something they can't really explain. But I've always been a 'how does that work' kind of guy. Maybe that's why I left the Christian faith behind and continued for a while to struggle with the existence of God until I pretty much became a non-believer. It's not that I feel rebellious, like so many Christians believe of atheists/non-believers, but I just can't figure it out. I just reason if it is just a mystery that we can't fathom...why believe it at all. Why not just accept that this natural world is a mystery we can't fathom, and enjoy that for what it is?
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
I believe eternal life will take place in a physical body and will occur within the orbs of time.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Part of my awakening involved looking at an "Eternal Now" poster I had on the wall and thinking - there's something profoundly true about that phrase.

I believe that is true but it is not what Jesus is referring to when He speaks of eternal life.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Yeah, we are eternal, we are star material. What constitutes us is eternal (from the time the universe came into being and till it will exist).
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Yeah, we are eternal, we are star material. What constitutes us is eternal (from the time the universe came into being and till it will exist).
But isn't this talking about linear time, how old all that material is that makes up our bodies? That doesn't exactly speak to the timeless present, which is what I believe "eternal life" points to as a metaphor, as opposed to a scientific definition on a linear scale of time.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
That doesn't exactly speak to the timeless present, which is what I believe "eternal life" points to as a metaphor, ..
IMHO, there is no present. It is always either past or future. Present is a Plank's moment, it always slips away from grasp. :)
 

Rizdek

Member
No. According to this:


Wow, that's interesting. So...in a kind of layman's way of looking at it, the natural world is/has the capability of consciousness more or less built in to it and humans are part of it. Or maybe the world IS conscious/consciousness in some weird way. Or maybe I didn't understand what he meant.:)
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
IMHO, there is no present. It is always either past or future. Present is a Plank's moment, it always slips away from grasp. :)
There is no present? Where does all the thinking about the past occur? In the future? Where does all the thinking about the future occur? In the past? Where I am right now? Where I am? Oh god, I'm in a black hole. :)
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Yeah, you are in the black hole. The present has already slipped by. :)

tp.jpg
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Yeah, you are in the black hole. The present has already slipped by. :)
Not unless you are fully present in it. To say the present doesn't exist, means you aren't present in it, thinking of always the past or the future. That's kind of the whole point of the practice of Awareness, isn't it?
 
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