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Errors in Bible translations...

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by t3gah, Dec 22, 2004.

?
  1. Yes

    33 vote(s)
    47.1%
  2. No

    11 vote(s)
    15.7%
  3. I'm not sure

    6 vote(s)
    8.6%
  4. Who cares?!

    16 vote(s)
    22.9%
  5. I don't have any bibles

    4 vote(s)
    5.7%
  1. Pilgrim of this Reality

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    for one it would be nice if the word baptism was replaced by the meaning of the Greek: immersion. This is just one of a long list of small things that could be translated properly to help with understanding.
     
  2. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    You believe it's an error?

    It is true that baptizo often means immersion. For example, the Greek version of the Old Testament tells us that Naaman, at Elisha’s direction, "went down and dipped himself [the Greek word here is baptizo] seven times in the Jordan" (2 Kgs. 5:14, Septuagint, emphasis added).

    But immersion is not the only meaning of baptizo. Sometimes it just means washing up. Thus Luke 11:38 reports that, when Jesus ate at a Pharisee’s house, "[t]he Pharisee was astonished to see that he did not first wash [baptizo] before dinner." They did not practice immersion before dinner, but, according to Mark, the Pharisees "do not eat unless they wash [nipto] their hands, observing the tradition of the elders; and when they come from the market place, they do not eat unless they wash themselves [baptizo]" (Mark 7:3–4a, emphasis added). So baptizo can mean cleansing or ritual washing as well as immersion.

    A similar range of meanings can be seen when baptizo is used metaphorically. Sometimes a figurative "baptism" is a sort of "immersion"; but not always. For example, speaking of his future suffering and death, Jesus said, "I have a baptism [baptisma] to be baptized [baptizo] with; and how I am constrained until it is accomplished!" (Luke 12:50) This might suggest that Christ would be "immersed" in suffering. On the other hand, consider the case of being "baptized with the Holy Spirit."

    In Acts 1:4–5 Jesus charged his disciples "not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, he said, ‘you heard from me, for John baptized with water, but before many days you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’" Did this mean they would be "immersed" in the Spirit? No: three times Acts 2 states that the Holy Spirit was poured out on them when Pentecost came (2:17, 18, 33, emphasis added). Later Peter referred to the Spirit falling upon them, and also on others after Pentecost, explicitly identifying these events with the promise of being "baptized with the Holy Spirit" (Acts 11:15–17). These passages demonstrate that the meaning of baptizo is broad enough to include "pouring."

    Sometimes an error in translation is really an error in education.....;)
     
  3. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes an error in translation is really an error in education.....;)

    Sometimes an error in education is really "too many cooks spoil the broth."
     
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  4. EnhancedSpirit

    EnhancedSpirit High Priestess

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    The meek shall inherit the earth.

    I don't know what exegesis means. But I will respond. This mistranslation really didn't move me. As I didn't see much difference. The point is still the same. The meek shall have the earth in the end. But I have a few jewish friends who found this difference to be profound.
    I will quote one of them: " I'm so glad to hear this!! The Jews are a proud people and the idea of us being considered 'meek' and just waiting around for our inheritance did not sit well with me. But now this makes more sense with what we were taught."

    I am merely passing information. You are free to use what you can and throw away the rest:)
     
  5. Doodlebug02

    Doodlebug02 Active Member

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    Umm, no. I don't hardly think so.:sarcastic
     
  6. Doodlebug02

    Doodlebug02 Active Member

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    Sure, why not?
     
  7. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    I am slightly surprised that you admit to not knowing the meaning of a word, and yet apparently make no effort to find out the meaning; correct communication between people is one of the most important facets of a forum such as this one. For your info:-

    Pronunciation: "ek-s&-'jE-s&s, 'ek-s&-"
    Function: noun
    Inflected Form(s): plural /-'jE-(")sEz/
    Etymology: 1619, from Gk. exegeisthai "explain, interpret," from ex- "out" + hegeisthai "to lead, guide.: Exposition,explanation especially : an explanation or critical interpretation of a text :rolleyes: [​IMG]
     
  8. EnhancedSpirit

    EnhancedSpirit High Priestess

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    Thank you for the lesson. Yes, normally I would have looked it up. I love to learn new things. I have been very distracted by real life lately. You know, paying bills and taking care of sick kids:cool:

    But that is off the topic. I try to get a little time on the Forums everyday, for some 'soul food'. But for the last couple of weeks I have been rushed to do so. :D
     
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  9. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

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    Hi Everyone

    I have been reading your many and varied answers on your understanding of the Bible and errors in it. However, many things some consider errors are really not as I have learned in my in-depth Bible research as an independent Bible researcher. However, explanations of many of these issues are greater than space limitations on this forum. Therefore, I have made available some of my research products at to assist you all with regard to understanding just how valuable the Bible has been to civilication. In brief,

    Civilization and the Bible

    1) Our entire civilization as we know it is actually built on the ability to store information in one form or another and to pass it on to others for their use. This storage can take many different forms such as books, memory cores and disks, scrolls, clay tablets, writings on stones and artifacts, etc. Storage of the repository of human knowledge and better reasoning ability are the things that set humankind apart from all other species that inhabits this planet. We know what happened in the past and can learn from the past because of our store of knowledge. Without this ability to store knowledge we would not know anything about the Roman Empire, the various ancient dynasties of the Chinese or the scientific findings of the past that we have built on and developed on in a synergistic way to continually advance. This sets us apart from all the other concurrent inhabiting species of this planet; take the common cat, this animal has coexisted with mankind during are entire existence, but it lacks the ability to pass on anything more than the most rudimentary information to the next generation and it has NOT advanced; we see no great cat cities or developments by this species and we never will.

    2) Our advancement was made possible by this ability to build on our collective knowledge in a continuing progressive upward path. We name things and this name is accepted as valid my others and our knowledge is added to. Take for example the color we call red, why is it red? It is red only because we collectively decide to use this term for it and to reference it to artifacts such as color chips, vases, etc. that are that color. Could we prove anything is red apart from our collective knowledge of what is red and our artifacts? Definitely not since it is only red due to our collective knowledge and our artifacts. Without our collective knowledge and our artifacts we would be just like the lesser animals having only a here and now existence. Of course there are those among us that differ with our collective knowledge and question the obvious of what we know or have learned as a society. The Flat Earth Society (London and California) maintain that the earth is flat and not round and there are still some primitive people that believe the earth is not only flat but carried by a great turtle through the cosmos and also those who maintain man has never gone to the moon. However, are their beliefs reasonable in the light of knowledge accumulated by society and the artifacts now possessed by society, the answer is a resounding NO.

    3) Also, are advancement is built on our ability to classify our knowledge. Many things are as we classify them. These classifications are not intrinsically right or wrong, but a method of ordering our collective knowledge into a coherent form for better understanding. In other words it is humanities attempt to take a group of disconnected information and put it into some order so we can better understand it. Of course one can disagree with classifications used and maintain that standard classifications are inadequate in one way or another, but he/she does thins strictly on the basis of the collective body of human knowledge. For example, take the classifications of several forms of deviant sex, pedophile, homosexual, and heterosexual deviant sex practitioner. Our collective knowledge is that a heterosexual relates to one who has sexual desires toward a member of the opposite gender; a homosexual relates to one who has sexual desires toward a member of his own gender; Pedophilia relates to a sexual perversion in which children, either sex, are the preferred sexual object. Now one could maintain that pedophilias are neither homosexual or heterosexual deviant sex practitioners as they are driven by different behavior motivations, i.e., power and control in addition to sex, than deviant sex practitioners who prefer adults. While their behavior motivations are different, they, depending on the gender of the victim and the perpetrator would be either heterosexual pedophiles or homosexual pedophiles; note, as previously mentioned this classification is apart from the differences in underlying motivation due to how we have collectively set up the classification in our collective body of knowledge.

    4) Since God created us and everything else in the universe and new our makeup since he had made us, he caused men under his direction or inspiration to write a collective body of information to tell us of his requirements, laws and principles; of the history of his people with whom he had concluded a covenant with; to tell us salient items to occur in the future, prophecy; and to inspire us. For example, the history given in the Bible was intended to show how when his people kept his laws and principles all went well with them and when they disobeyed how he brought punishment on them. This history also showed how punishment was executed on wicked nations before our modern era. All this was for the purpose of adding to our collective knowledge so we could learn from it and act in an intelligent manner on it if we were so disposed. Whereas, prophecy, the foretelling of history in advance, had basically a two fold purpose of first advising us of what would happen in the future and in most cases why and the second was so we would indeed know that his addition to our collective knowledge was indeed from him and the writers of it were indeed inspired. In fact, one mathematician once took the hundred of scriptures in the old testament concerning Jesus, prophecy related to him, and calculated that the possibility of them all being fulfilled by coincidence was so great as to be mathematically impossible.

    In addition to prophecy to show the Bible is inspired and from God is the many recorded eyewitness accounts recorded in the Bible and elsewhere that relate to the life and times of Jesus. For example, the accounts written by Josephus, a first century Jewish historian employed by the Romans, clearly acknowledge Jesus (see “The Jewish Antiguities” by Josephus) and many of his activities/accomplishments as do other contemporary historians such as Tacitus, a Roman historian in “The complete works of Tacitus, “ and numerous others. “The New Encyclopedia Britannica states: “These independent accounts prove that in ancient times even the opponents of Christianity never doubted the historicity of Jesus.” The Jews, however, did not accept Jesus and the “Encyclopaedia Judaica says, “The Jews of the Roman period believed [the Messiah] would be raised up by God to break the yoke of the heather…” but they did admit his existance and many of the powerful works he did.

    5) Some specific examples of its inspiration were the prophecy at Jeremiah 49:17-18 17 “Also Edom shall be a desolation: every one that goeth by it shall be astonished, and shall hiss at all the plagues thereof. 18 As in the overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighbour cities thereof, saith the LORD, no man shall abide there, neither shall a son of man dwell in it.” Note, Jeremiah’s recording was finished by 580 B.C. The prophecy was fulfilled when the Edomites were driven from Palesting during the 2nd century B.C. by Judam Maccabaeus, “The New Funk & Wagnalls Encyclopedia. There are many more examples such as this that can be found in reference books in all major libraries for any who should care to do further research in the repository of collective knowledge of our civilization.

    6) Therefore the Bible is proved as reliable by are repository of collective artifacts, many from archeological discoveries, that verify Biblical facts and details, and our collective repository of recorded knowledge external to the Bible. As previously noted this can be checked out at any major library with a little research on the part of any interested individual who wishes to do his/her homework.

    To learn more about the subject, go to:

    Bible Data and Bible Canon
    http://www.network54.com/Forum/388559

    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
  10. armageddon

    armageddon Member

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    how would you know if the bible is "more accurate"? isnt bible translations part opinion because not everyone thinks one word means the same thing??
     
  11. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Grammatically tortured, ignorant and deceptive rubbish! This being Pesach, it is noteworthy that archaeology repudiates the Biblical Exodus rather than confirms it.
     
  12. Melody

    Melody Well-Known Member

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    Meek
    1 : enduring injury with patience and without resentment
    2 : deficient in spirit and courage
    3 : not violent or strong

    I think perhaps Jesus was using the first definition since He was the poster child for "meek" receiving the ultimate in injury and bearing it with extreme patience and without resentment ("Father forgive them....).

    I pray that God will create a meek spirit in me because that is not a normal part of my personality....neither the patient part or the resentment part....to my regret. But I'm working on it.
     
  13. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

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    What it repudiates is the archaeological time frame. When you set a false date and try to confirm that date you will always repudiate it! LOL.
     
  14. anami

    anami Member

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    Yeah, darlin' because every time the Torah was conciously changed in translation to different words, the context is changed as well. Hebrew and english are not word for word, no language is.

    i believe an actual set of scholars who's background i personally know, over centuries of text that has been conciously and aknowledged to have been changed. Yeah and i'm the gullible one!?

    The point is all it takes is native speakers of the texts native languages to know it has been turned from history to a story.
     
  15. anami

    anami Member

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    Oh, you study the Torah? So then you speak Hebrew fluently and have studied decades of script and take pilgrimages to Israel to meet with the progressive line of Rabbi scholars from who translated the script, like my friend.

    Your right, i should believe the guy with a few books over people who dedicate their lives to such study. what was i thinking, i must be gullible! :bonk:
     
  16. anami

    anami Member

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    If it was translated into a word that doesn't mean what the original word meant this is an error in translation, not a re explanation of the same text.
     
  17. Faust

    Faust Active Member

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    I would still like to get an answer to this question since I have asked it several times on other threads. I consider it to be very important.

    Why is the geneology of Jesus given in Mathew and Luke traced to Marys husband Joseph?
    The Messiah according to the O.T. prophets is supposed to be a direct descendant of David,
    but according to the N.T. Jesus was fathered by the Holy Spirit.
    If Jesus was fathered by Joseph that would discount the N.T. version of his conception.
    This is what Christianity is based on. Doesn't this kind of peak anyone elses interest?
    Faust.
     
  18. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    What date would you like to suggest?
     
  19. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

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    Go back to the evidence and have it set the date. If you can't establish the date, admit you don't know. And all is speculation. My opinion does not establish a FACT. Neither does an experts opinion. He just get paid better for his opinion.
     
  20. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    While I don't think we have a perfect translation of the Bible now (I use the KJV most of the time myself), I'm not convinced that a new translation would be any better than what we now have. After all, most of the "original" documents we have aren't "original" at all. They're just copies of copies of copies. Any error made in the transcription process back in the 1st and 2nd centuries have endured to this day anyway. If we truly had the originals as they were penned by the prophets and apostles, then there might be a point to a new translation.
     
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