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Errors in Bible translations...

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by t3gah, Dec 22, 2004.

?
  1. Yes

    33 vote(s)
    47.1%
  2. No

    11 vote(s)
    15.7%
  3. I'm not sure

    6 vote(s)
    8.6%
  4. Who cares?!

    16 vote(s)
    22.9%
  5. I don't have any bibles

    4 vote(s)
    5.7%
  1. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    No evidence. No date. Just your pathetic, sophomoric evasions. :)
     
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  2. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

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    Well! Thank You, I love yours also.
     
  3. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    The original question was about the accuracy of the translation and not the accuracy of the scriptures. Please start another thread or find one that addresses those issues.

    If you believe in the Holy Spirit, then you also believe that God works everything for the good for those that love the Lord. Everything.

    So it really doesn't matter if a word has been mis-translated or translitterated. My God is able to work through ALL things. What we see as "faulty", God simply sees as an opportunity to display his divine power.

    In that vein, I believe the NIV is an acceptable version. It is written in today's language so I can understand it, and there are no critical errors such as "God is of the devil". I don't rely on my intellect to understand the scriptures. In all humility, I let the Spirit guide me to and through the truth. In meekness, I let God be God and reveal all of his wonder and delights. The more you humble yourself to the "obvious" truths therein, the more the Spirit reveals to you.

    Ephesians 1:17 I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. 18 I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, 19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, 20 which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.
     
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  4. anami

    anami Member

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    i don't personally assign "God" emotions or a face or hands or ears, but i do think there is one thing i can personify..."God" has a wierd sense of humor. :biglaugh:
     
  5. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

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    Iris89, in your research have you studied Dr. Karl Coke, for me he is impressive. How about you?

    I checked out your site and enjoyed it very much.
     
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  6. angellous_evangellous

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    There aren't enough frubals for this statement. :eek:

    Translation is an ongoing excersize - English continually changes and other manuscripts are continually being studied for date and content.
     
  7. angellous_evangellous

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    The NIV is not a reliable translation, NetDoc. It is an elastic interpretation of the text that continually is inconsistent with the literal meaning of the text. I can't understand why evangelical conservatives (who try to live according to the Bible) have promoted such a lacking interpretation... perhaps too many of them slept through Greek and Hebrew in seminary. The English Standard Verison or NKJV are much better.
     
  8. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Can you give me a specific example of where this has come into play?
     
  9. Faust

    Faust Active Member

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    Is the lineage of Jesus in both Mathew and Luke an obvious mistake in translation, or is it simply a blatant contradiction of O.T. prophesy? Is Jesus the messiah prophesied in the O.T. or is he something entirely different?
    If this is a problem with translation I would greatly appreciate some supportable information because this issue goes straight to the heart of the Christian religion.
    Faust.
     
  10. angellous_evangellous

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    That language continually changes should be self-evident, as the language is evolving even now. Word use and grammar evolve- that's why we have Old English, Middle English, etc.

    Dissertations are continually being written that shed light on how words in the Greek and Hebrew language were used in the Bible as well as in other ancient texts, which will continue to color our understanding of how the words should be defined as well as syntactical relationships, and it is possible that discoveries of new manucripts - both biblical and non-biblical will enhance our understanding as to the nature of the text and syntactical relationships.

    The most significant recent discovery is the Dead Sea Scrolls, which shed light on everything from word use to canonization. The DSS have not been fully digested by scholars.

    The most significant collection of dissertations with regards to the NT that I know of is found in the Theological Dictionary of the NT, which includes everything from textual criticism, syntax, and definitions.

    There are approx 5000 NT manuscripts, and some are unpublished. The science of dating the texts and arranging them into textual families is ongoing and some are in dispute. The most significant recent conclusions include the removal of the last chapters of Mark from most recent translations (or at least designating a 'shorter' version of Mark and a 'longer' version like the NRSV) - and many Christians notice that the end of the Lord's prayer is now missing from several modern translations ("for thine is the power and the kingdom...) due to textual discoveries.
     
  11. angellous_evangellous

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    It is not a problem of translation. The names in the lists are different.
     
  12. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Recent conclusion? The Marcan Appendix is absent from the earliest know codices, i.e., Sinaiticus, Vaticanus, Bobiensis, and Syriacus, and this absence is hardly a recent conclusion.
     
  13. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    I`m aware of the problems with the end of Mark.

    I was however unaware it involved the entire final chapter.
    I was under the impression it was no more than the last few verses missing from Sinaiticus, granted I haven`t seen it myself but not many have.

    Why is the entire final chapter in question?

    This has serious impact on the foundation of Christian resurrection doesn`t it?
     
  14. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    From bible.org
     
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  15. Faust

    Faust Active Member

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    But they both conclude with Joseph.
    If Joseph was the father of Jesus, then Mary did not conceive Jesus of the Holy Spirit.
    If Jesus was fathered by the Holy Spirit then he was not descended from David.
    I don't see how the names in the lists being different changes this.
    Faust.
     
  16. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    If Joseph was the father of Jesus, then Mary did not conceive Jesus of the Holy Spirit.
    If Jesus was fathered by the Holy Spirit then he was not descended from David.

    This is really one of my favorite Biblical conundrums.

    :)

    Deut,
    Thanks for that, there are a couple of possibilities in that post I hadn`t given much thought to and the subject of those last few verses has always intrigued me.

    However unless I`m missing something I don`t see how those last 11 verses throw the prior 8 into trouble.
    I believe the first 8 are acceptabe as authentic from what I`ve read.
    granted those last eleven are the majority of the chapter and priceless to Christian dogma.
     
  17. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

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    Hi Everyone

    I read everyone's much ado over nothing. Joseph clearly is NOT the biological father of Jesus (Yeshua), but only the step-father from a biological point of view as made clear in Matthew 1:18-25, " Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child of the Holy Spirit; 19 and her husband Joseph, being a just man and unwilling to put her to shame, resolved to divorce her quietly. 20 But as he considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit; 21 she will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins." 22 All this took place to fulfil what the Lord had spoken by the prophet: 23 "Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel" (which means, God with us). 24 When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him; he took his wife, 25 but knew her not until she had borne a son; and he called his name Jesus." (Revised Standard Version; RSV). why? Clearly because as the scripture testifies, " but knew her not until she had borne a son; and he called his name Jesus." So if he did not have relations with her until after the birth of Jesus (Yeshua) he could in no way be his biological father; although, of course later on he had relations with her since the term knew used in this sense means sexual intercourse.

    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
  18. angellous_evangellous

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    I was trying to appeal to common knowledge by referring to Mark. We've known about the editing of the Lord's prayer for quite a while too.

    EDIT: What is significant and in flux is the scholarly value given to the various textual witnesses. The 5000 texts that comprise the NT don't match, and the balancing of the text is done with varying judgements based on either the majority text theory (KJV/NKJV) or the oldest text theory (I can't recall the technical name for this off the top of my head... NRSV, NIV, and many others). The majority text hypothesis theorizes that where most of the texts match, then the majority has the most authority. However, if one early text gets edited and is passed around and copied into many text families, then the majority text produces the error and it is thought to be authoritative.

    There are scholars still reviewing, dating, and comparing texts to try and figure out which ones are the oldest and therefore (in my view) the most authoritative. All of the texts are early that make a significant impact on textual criticism, but the weight given to each text differs with scholarly opinion regarding textual theories.
     
  19. angellous_evangellous

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    I don't think it has serious implications for the foundation of the Christian teaching of the resurrection. We have three other Gospels that have the resurrection story, and the dating of the Markan edition is still pretty early.
     
  20. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

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