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Featured Equality of Men and Women

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Tony Bristow-Stagg, Jan 21, 2019.

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  1. Both genders have equal opportunity

    16 vote(s)
    47.1%
  2. There is a sameness

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Women are better then Men

    2 vote(s)
    5.9%
  4. Men are better then women

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. I am not concerned about this issue

    2 vote(s)
    5.9%
  6. I am concerned, but think gender have different rolls to play

    4 vote(s)
    11.8%
  7. I have another view - I will explain in a post.

    13 vote(s)
    38.2%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    Since the mid 1800's there has been a movement by women to become a voice amongst men. A voice that one could rightly say demands that men give women equal opportunity in all pursuits of life and in work equal pay for the same job.

    Many women have laid down their lives to bring about this change.

    In America The 'Women's Suffrage Movement' started in 1848 and paved the way to changing the way men thought about women. The Woman Suffrage Movement

    It is little know that in Persia at the same time, there was also the stirrings of a voice for women by a Lady called Tahirih where she unveiled in front of men from a Muslim background. Tahirih was put to death in 1852 and her final words were reported to be;

    "You can kill me as soon as you like, but you cannot stop the emancipation of women."

    Giving a voice to Tahirih - the 19th century Persian suffragette

    Tahirih.jpg

    So the question is how do Men and Women find this Equality?

    The pole questions give food for thought, or you may have another thought?

    Regards Tony
     
    #1 Tony Bristow-Stagg, Jan 21, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
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  2. Ray Warren

    Ray Warren There is beauty in the silence.

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    Excluding non-binary people trans people and intersex people in this conversation(which is ignoring a lot of people), I believe that men and women should have equal opportunities but this doesn't mean that they both are the same. The physiology of most women and of most men are different as are how there brains are wired. So there could be some differences on social issues and such.
     
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  3. bobhikes

    bobhikes Nowoligist
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    It is impossible not to see physical differences between men and women and science has proven different chemical make up. Overall these differences are extremely varied among the different gender's. Varied so much that with in a gender an individual may seem more like the other gender.

    What this means to me is that on average the gender's are different; however, individuals of each gender can exceed the differences of average for each gender. Considering the individuals of each gender overall as an aspect of success in life there is no different between any individuals just varied aspects of each individual that totaled up equal the same value all human's have independent of gender.

    When it comes to societal activities, equality should be the norm across gender's because individuality is so varied as stated before that gender differences have no real value with societal activities.
     
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  4. Ray Warren

    Ray Warren There is beauty in the silence.

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    This is kinda where I stand.I just don't know enough to know about whether or not it could affect how they act in social setting but they should both be given the same opportunities.
     
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  5. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    I think the problem is looking at a person as a gender instead of as an individual. Men and women are their own individual. Have their own likes and dislikes. Not all men like being treated in the same way. I don't see why one would think all women would want to be treated the same.

    I suppose equality in that you don't try to conform people, in general, to how you think they ought to be. As far as job and economic opportunities, as long as you are not getting in their way of pursuing those opportunities they choose to pursue.
     
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  6. spirit_of_dawn

    spirit_of_dawn Active Member

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    You do know that this is not an official translation of Baha'i texts? And that the original Persian or Arabic transcript of the alleged statement does not exist? So, I'm wondering why you vehemently deny and attack any translation of Baha'i texts that does not suit you, but easily propagate a false statement that has no basis but suits your argument?
     
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  7. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    Off topic.

    Regards Tony
     
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  8. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    I have led a very physical life and can say with some authority that men can do physical tasks that women can not. In light of what happens to men as they retire, there is the question of "should" men press their physical bodies to do all they can do?

    Both the Bible and the Quran say that women are subservient to men. Sadly, our cultures are rife with men mistreating women because they think those books say that women are inferior to men. AND good leaders soon learn that your leadership is only as good as how well you treat your "weakest" member of your team.

    Surah 4:34 and Genesis 3:16 both state chillingly similar sentiments. My own opinion is that men can not push out babies. Women can walk through a room or area and "inventory" what is in it many times more effectively than men. Without a woman to order their lives, men wander about like lost puppies. There are myriad other differences between men and women and a thinking man will accept that men and women are equal, but not equivalent.
     
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  9. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    That is a good observation. On the other hand I have a wife that will also push herself to the limit when she helps me with manual labour projects. She recently helped me cart steel wall frames into position, they were hard for me to lift, but she was there all the way. Same as my daughter.

    So I see we help each other as much as we can.

    I see the biggest issue in all this, is that of child birth and care.

    Where are your thoughts on this subject?

    Regards Tony
     
  10. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    My mother grew up in the outskirts of Belfast and had the capacity for higher education which was not supported as her father couldn't see the point. Women either worked in the clothing mill or married and had children. That was all during the second world war. Mercifully there has been a paradigm shift since.

    I live in a country that emphasises the equal opportunities for woman. I live in New Zealand where we have a 38 year old female prime minister who had her first baby while in office last year.

    Jacinda Ardern - Wikipedia

    I'm a member of the Baha'i faith. As you know, the equality of men and women is seen as one of the essential prerequisites for world peace.
     
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  11. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    I chose the last item as I do believe men and women should have equal opportunities, but that possible selection isn't present.
     
  12. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Right wing fabrication regurgitator...so they say.
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    Equality of opportunity is a great goal, regardless of gender, religion, politics, etc, etc.
     
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  13. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Congrats on the above!
     
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  14. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    Well spotted that is my english, as that what was meant by the first option.

    Regards Tony
     
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  15. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    In the dim past, Men were the protectors, while women bore, raised and fed the children, and the rest of those in the house. I think that women are generally much more collaborative than men. These days, the heavy physical tasks are declining.

    I think that the fact that women are going to work in construction, and maintenance could be good, because rules to accommodate women there, could potentially work to protect men from being injured due to their macho-ness.

    It is up to you to insure that your women have adequate protective wear, and use it, and are not needlessly injured. Remember Genesis 3:16. Women seek to please you. Do not abuse it. :)
     
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  16. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    We know a lot in theory, suggest a lot, yet much remains hidden. There are closed doors where gender bias may be better, or worse than we think, and there are hidden compartments of the subconscious that only appear when we delve into them. I generally individualise it, starting with the way I treated my sons and daughters, and students when I taught.
     
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  17. Wild Fox

    Wild Fox Well-Known Member

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    Different social issues Imposed by whom, men or women. Clearly the Abrahamic religions are male dominated through history with clear negative images towards women from the beginning. There are physiological differences yes, that is obvious but when you start describing how there are differences in the way male and female brains are wired you are incorrect. The neurologic networks are the same except for regulation of some hormones which when active have an influence on the brain as well as the body but that little to do with the overall function of male and female brains and how they process knowledge. Social conditioning may have an effect but this does not mean a true difference.
     
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  18. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    People are people, black, white, male, female, short, tall, rich, poor. They are all pretty much the same but every single one is different.

    Equality is getting closer, but still no cigar, in some countries the balance is almost level, others there are hundreds of years still to go. Abrahamic religions and social attitudes, even language have much to answer for.
     
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  19. Ray Warren

    Ray Warren There is beauty in the silence.

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    thanks i guess.
     
  20. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    The choices were too narrow, so that there was really no way to make an intelligent selection, for me.

    As a humanist, I do not see a difference between males and females at any level above the obvious gender roles, and of course, even there I accept without worry that there are differences even there.

    I cannot make an "ought" from an "is." But I think that all humans should have equal opportunity to pursue their goals, so long as they are capable. I'm a male, but both my dentists and my doctors for the past fifty years have been female. Why? Because they were qualified, and available, and what else did I need?

    My view of the world is not tainted by religions, Abrahamic or otherwise, so I have no difficulty working for a boss who is male, a boss who is female, a boss who is straight, a boss who is gay. In fact, over fifty years, I've worked for all of those, and it's generally gone pretty well. As a boss myself (VP of IT in Finance) I've hired males, females, gay, straight, and some I couldn't figure out. But everyone that I hired had the skills I needed to do the job I required done. What else did I need?

    I have a friend, a male friend, who was Head of Nursing for a major children's hospital. There was a time when "nurse" always meant female, but why? This fellow was a fabulous nurse, and anyone who came under his care could not have asked for better.

    On the other hand, if there are job requirements that are unlikely to be met by one gender or the other, I have no problem with the fact that those jobs will be heavily favoured to select one or the other. A firefighter ought to be able to hoist a pretty heavy burden, and carry that burden down a ladder in a hurry. A 98 pound slip of a girl (or a 98 pound slip of boy) is probably not up to that...but be sure, I have known women who were, and men who were not. But it is in the nature of our species over all that males are far more often going to meet the requirement than females.

    In the same way, there are roles where empathy, subtlety of sensitive communication, etc. are going to favour females. This does not say that males can't be empathetic, or subtle, but that by and large, often due to early life training, they may be far outnumbered by their female counterparts. And thus, some fields of endeavour will just naturally have more women than men.

    On the subject of compensation, however, I am firmly of the belief that pay should be based on the value of the work performed, not on the gender (or race, or sexual orientation) of the performer. If a male and a female firefighter can meet the requirements for the job, they should be paid the same way. If a male and female nurse can equally well care for the patients in their ward, they should be paid the same way.

    And politically, every human voice has exactly the same weight in the polling booth. And every human has the same right to seek roles of leadership, where they can demonstrate their ability to the satisfaction of those that vote for them.
     
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