• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Epic Fictional Universes: Then and Now

sealchan

sealchan

Well-Known Member
I have this notion of the "World Story" which would be some endless project of finding and connecting together stories in a way that makes a sort of patchwork quilt of narrative that stretches out across history and beyond. I am learning web development which might help me to establish some sort of webby way to facilitate such a project as a crowd sourced endeavor.

One concept that keeps coming back to me is that of what I take to be the largest category of integrated narrative whether it be literature or film or whatever. Currently my term for this is Epic Fictional Universe.
What is an epic fictional universe? It is a body of literary and/or audio/visual performance that...
  • Describes a world that has non-scientific or miraculous qualities not conforming to a purely practical reality
  • Tells the story of either generations of individuals or an array of variously interacting individuals
  • Contains many narratives which are a part of a greater one
  • The separate narratives share a common world either implicitly or explicitly through its creator(s)’ intent
I started making a list of what I would consider to be epic fictional universes and discovered something interesting; there seems to be two fruitful periods for the production of these epic fictional universes. The first fruitful period being ancient times (what some call the Axial Age) when cultures adapted oral stories into written form and at times achieved long narratives detailing successive lives lived out in a reality which involves some sort of supernatural reality. Often these narratives are associated with religions which have obtained political sanction from great political powers that have reinforced them.

The second fruitful period is our modern period which has, through the advent of television and motion pictures given rise to a new medium of story-telling. These narratives come out in series or sequences of films and may be sourced from literate sources. Their popularity is measured by their financial performance and the likelihood of their being further developed. These narratives are usually dissociated from the ancient religions and often replace the super-natural with advanced future scientific technology and/or a more mechanical sense of mystery in the form of magic or mental powers.

In comments which will follow I will describe the epic fictional universes that I have identified.

Any comments welcome...especially suggestions for what would constitute an epic fictional universe and what significance, if any, these creations have in the context of human history.
 
sealchan

sealchan

Well-Known Member
ANCIENT

The following are three epic fictional universes developed during ancient times. I suspect that these works all had a lot to do with the movement of oral stories into written form. Common qualities among these collections of literature include the following major motifs:

  • Divine Creation
  • Great Flood
  • Evolution of the Generations
  • The Great War


The Bible

Staring God and His miraculous actions, there are also demons and angels. God can, well, do anything. The Bible is, perhaps, one of the most developed epic fictional universes in how it has traced out such a long genealogy of its main protagonists. Outside of canonical stories there are non-canonical works as well as an endless host of stories which retell, analogize, draw significant inspiration from or make significant reference to the stories and characters in the Bible.


Greek Epic Cycle

Taken at its widest possible formulation, the Greek Epic Cycle can be seen to include most of the surviving manuscripts of Ancient Greek literature. A pantheon of gods who seem to have human-like personalities bring their own issues into play as they make their divine influence felt dramatically and violently in the realm of the human. Not nearly as coherent in its generational progression as the Bible it has enough content to be potentially formed up into a fairly cohesive narrative at a Biblical scale. As with the Bible, Ancient Greek literature has influenced many later narrative works.


Itihasa

This term, as I understand it, aims to encompass all narratives in the Hindu tradition of significance. Like the Greek Epic Cycle, there is a pantheon and a wealth of stories. The Mahabharata is the the longest single work of epic literature ever produced. Spiritual power is attainable by individuals through their focus and/or devotion to the gods or to through their pious discipline. In the "East" this literature has, as I understand it, had a profound impact on the literature that has followed. Being a westerner myself I am much less able to be a witness to this directly. I have been trying to immerse myself in some of this literature through books and videos.
 
sealchan

sealchan

Well-Known Member
MEDIEVAL

Norse myth may have more in common with ancient epic fictional universes while Arthurian Romance all but ignores any story of creation or a great flood. There is, however, a great battle (or two) and a definite sense of the degeneration of the world through the generations.


Arthurian Romance

Originally a part of the legendary "Matter of Britain" and its succession of legendary kings and queens, the stories of King Arthur and his Knights of the Round Table and other related stories in that genre offer a distinctive universe of action. At its broadest the Arthurian stories only encompass maybe two or three generations but there is a rich diversity of knights and their separate stories. The supernatural component is a mixture of Christian miracle and magical powers with associations to the Mother Goddess of pre-Christian tradition. Combat between knights is often as much about their morality or virtue as it is about their skill and strength.


Norse Myth

Having been a fan of Wagner's Ring of the Nibelung, it can be seen that Norse myth contains a great deal of material and that it can support a generational epic narrative. Beyond my knowledge of this opera my familiarity with Norse myth quickly diminishes. But descriptions of the nine realms of the world suggest an interesting diversity in the character of the creation.
 
sealchan

sealchan

Well-Known Member
MODERN I


Middle Earth

Based directly on some of the above, Tolkien has single-handedly crafted a rich world through thousands of years of generations. His pantheon of gods watch over the actions of the supreme god's children, a diversity of races who various cooperate or separate. One god fell into evil and became the primary counter-point to the rest of the efforts of the divine ones. There is magic somewhat bound up with places and with ancient crafted artifacts. Access to these artifacts tends to lead to varying outcomes for peace in Middle Earth.


DC Multiverse

I am only slightly familiar with DC comics characters through the movies. Like Marvel, I am sure, the stories featured of superheroes provides a broad array of characters whose stories are both separate and intertwined through benevolent team-ups. As is the case in the comics world, stories of particular heroes have been told, then re-told making for the realm of comic book superheroes into a natural fit to the concept of a multiverse. The source of superpower seems to vary from being wealthy and a genius, to having been born from the gods.


Asimov’s Future History

I have read most, if not all, of Asimov’s main Robots, Empire and Foundation novels. Clearly this is a work spanning generations of future people. The computational capabilities of artificial intelligence, the mathematical principles of psychohistory and the natural progression of power through scientific technology feature as the power players here. I believe there is also a bit of mentalistic power as well. All of this is primarily grounded in an imagined deeper knowledge of basically non-miraculous realities. Asimov is the primary author but I believe there are others who have contributed to this body of future fiction.


Kaiju

There is little to speak here of the progression of generations but there is plenty to say of what might be called natural or magical powers and a wide array of giant monsters and their various stories who also meet up for all out, knock-down, drag-out fights. The persistence of these motion picture narratives, their endless retellings seem to speak of a need to contemplate the pantheon of gods in terms of more dragon-like naturalistic monsters. Beside Godzilla and friends we might include the Transformers series as well as Pacific Rim.


Marvel Multiverse

Clearly one of the main inspirations for this whole thread, the new monumental motion picture series known as the Marvel Cinematic Universe could stand on its own in its breadth of different stories woven together. But, of course, there is the even greater body of comic book literature out of which these movies were created. Both DC and Marvel have produced a huge world of story and probably some amount of generational development to those stories. The various retellings also go to make this body of narrative truly epic.
 
Heyo

Heyo

Veteran Member
sealchan said:
MEDIEVAL

Norse Myth

Having been a fan of Wagner's Ring of the Nibelung, it can be seen that Norse myth contains a great deal of material and that it can support a generational epic narrative. Beyond my knowledge of this opera my familiarity with Norse myth quickly diminishes. But descriptions of the nine realms of the world suggest an interesting diversity in the character of the creation.
Click to expand...
The Nibelungen Saga is Germanic, not Norse. Easy to mix up since the Germanic and Norse mythology share many elements (and Wagner took elements from the Norse mythology that aren't present in the Niebelungenlied).
 
Heyo

Heyo

Veteran Member
sealchan said:
MODERN I


Middle Earth

Based directly on some of the above, Tolkien has single-handedly crafted a rich world through thousands of years of generations. His pantheon of gods watch over the actions of the supreme god's children, a diversity of races who various cooperate or separate. One god fell into evil and became the primary counter-point to the rest of the efforts of the divine ones. There is magic somewhat bound up with places and with ancient crafted artifacts. Access to these artifacts tends to lead to varying outcomes for peace in Middle Earth.


DC Multiverse

I am only slightly familiar with DC comics characters through the movies. Like Marvel, I am sure, the stories featured of superheroes provides a broad array of characters whose stories are both separate and intertwined through benevolent team-ups. As is the case in the comics world, stories of particular heroes have been told, then re-told making for the realm of comic book superheroes into a natural fit to the concept of a multiverse. The source of superpower seems to vary from being wealthy and a genius, to having been born from the gods.


Asimov’s Future History

I have read most, if not all, of Asimov’s main Robots, Empire and Foundation novels. Clearly this is a work spanning generations of future people. The computational capabilities of artificial intelligence, the mathematical principles of psychohistory and the natural progression of power through scientific technology feature as the power players here. I believe there is also a bit of mentalistic power as well. All of this is primarily grounded in an imagined deeper knowledge of basically non-miraculous realities. Asimov is the primary author but I believe there are others who have contributed to this body of future fiction.


Kaiju

There is little to speak here of the progression of generations but there is plenty to say of what might be called natural or magical powers and a wide array of giant monsters and their various stories who also meet up for all out, knock-down, drag-out fights. The persistence of these motion picture narratives, their endless retellings seem to speak of a need to contemplate the pantheon of gods in terms of more dragon-like naturalistic monsters. Beside Godzilla and friends we might include the Transformers series as well as Pacific Rim.


Marvel Multiverse

Clearly one of the main inspirations for this whole thread, the new monumental motion picture series known as the Marvel Cinematic Universe could stand on its own in its breadth of different stories woven together. But, of course, there is the even greater body of comic book literature out of which these movies were created. Both DC and Marvel have produced a huge world of story and probably some amount of generational development to those stories. The various retellings also go to make this body of narrative truly epic.
Click to expand...
I'd add the epic comic worlds of French artists, especially Mézières/Christin (Valerian et Laurelin). They have influenced so many later SciFi art (namely Star Wars).
 
Augustus

Augustus

…
sealchan said:
The second fruitful period is our modern period which has, through the advent of television and motion pictures given rise to a new medium of story-telling. These narratives come out in series or sequences of films and may be sourced from literate sources.
Click to expand...

Not sure if you aware of it or not, but worth looking at the resources out there on transmedia, transmedia storyworlds, transmedia storytelling etc.

It's basically using different media to tell different parts of an interconnected story within the same storyworld.


Transmedia storytelling - Wikipedia

Transmedia Storytelling: The Ultimate Guide - Nicely Said
 
sealchan

sealchan

Well-Known Member
Heyo said:
The Nibelungen Saga is Germanic, not Norse. Easy to mix up since the Germanic and Norse mythology share many elements (and Wagner took elements from the Norse mythology that aren't present in the Niebelungenlied).
Click to expand...

Thanks for this...maybe this is not a good example and is "just" an epic story but not part of an epic fictional universe.
 
sealchan

sealchan

Well-Known Member
Augustus said:
Not sure if you aware of it or not, but worth looking at the resources out there on transmedia, transmedia storyworlds, transmedia storytelling etc.

It's basically using different media to tell different parts of an interconnected story within the same storyworld.


Transmedia storytelling - Wikipedia

Transmedia Storytelling: The Ultimate Guide - Nicely Said
Click to expand...

It kind of overlaps...I guess transmedia might tend toward world-building since it builds a story through different types of media, but it does not of necessity have to do so. Engaging with a fictional narrative through various media would help to build the sense of reality of a fictional universe. Thanks for this.

That wikipedia article is a real mess. Needs a severe rewrite. Not sure it is even coherent.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top