Enough To Make Fair-Minded Christians Sick To Their Stomachs

[Subduction Zone]

What do you mean "my religion"? Which God was considered to have given inalienable rights in the Dec, do you think? Xenu?

You are now conflating the Declaration of Independence with the U.S. Constitution

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Sorry, atheism isn't a sin per se. Strident atheism seems to be.

Why does God want a relationship with you? God isn't stupid, and like smart people, does not pursue a relationship with pissed off people.

Good. Then please have His people stop bothering me.

 

[SkepticThinker]

What do you mean "my religion"? Which God was considered to have given inalienable rights in the Dec, do you think? Xenu?

I mean the religion that you practice.

Could you please address the point now?

 

[BilliardsBall]

You are now conflating the Declaration of Independence with the U.S. Constitution

I'm not conflating them, the Dec underpins the rest--which does NOT include the statement "church and state" as you know, but avoid mentioning.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Do you not understand the the U.S. Constitution is the ultimate law of the land? I even told you what part. Do you need me to quote it to you and its purpose as laid out by its author?

I do not know of Pence illegally preaching in schools. I would not put it past him. But I know that you cannot show that Obama ever went against the Constitution. Have you been smoking that whacky tabacky again?

I've no need, since you conveniently forgot I've multiple times within mentioned its guarantees on my rights to freedom of religion, association, speech and etc.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Good. Then please have His people stop bothering me.

NEWS FLASH: To accomplish the above, stay off RELIGIOUS FORUMS. (Slaps forehead!)

 

[BilliardsBall]

I mean the religion that you practice.

Could you please address the point now?

Which point? What is it you need from me now? And why are you here, is it because you are needy for religious instruction from me?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

NEWS FLASH: To accomplish the above, stay off RELIGIOUS FORUMS. (Slaps forehead!)

But that's just it (and I would assume that you pretty much know this), I am not talking about me going out and "looking for trouble." I'm talking about people coming to my door, or stopping in mid-conversation to ask if I "know Jesus" or "know where I am going when I die." I'm talking about legislation being informed by religious ideals - without proper evidential support as to the impact/consequences of such legislation, nor concern over anyone else's needs or rights - just because a bunch of people think that they know "what God wants." You know.... stupid, asinine, moronic stuff.

My coming on a religious forum is a part of what I attempt to enact to exert what little control I feel I might have over the situation. Keeping the religious at bay by continuing to make people understand it isn't always wanted, isn't always pertinent, isn't important to everyone, isn't warranted by default. I feel the need to get the word out on that, and make it stick. The more trepidation people feel in bringing their religious views and beliefs out into public discourse as if it should matter to everyone, the better. It DOESN'T matter to everyone. And people need to know that, rather than get nothing but support because they're allowed to operate inside a bubble. I'm here to pop the bubble... and I will continue to attempt to do so.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Which point? What is it you need from me now? And why are you here, is it because you are needy for religious instruction from me?

The point where your right to your own religious beliefs interferes with other peoples' right to their own religious beliefs, or lack thereof, in a public school setting.

What I'm needy of, is a relevant response from you that addresses the content of my posts for a change. Just once. You don't seem to understand yet that I'm looking for your opinion and your point of view on what is being discussed.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm not conflating them, the Dec underpins the rest--which does NOT include the statement "church and state" as you know, but avoid mentioning.

No, it really does not. It made the the Constitution possible, but it is a separate document. Don't worry, Christians often make this error.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I've no need, since you conveniently forgot I've multiple times within mentioned its guarantees on my rights to freedom of religion, association, speech and etc.

And there are limits to those rights. Too bad that you do not understand them.

Does a Muslim have the right to come into your church and interrupt a service by preaching the Koran?

 

[BilliardsBall]

But that's just it (and I would assume that you pretty much know this), I am not talking about me going out and "looking for trouble." I'm talking about people coming to my door, or stopping in mid-conversation to ask if I "know Jesus" or "know where I am going when I die." I'm talking about legislation being informed by religious ideals - without proper evidential support as to the impact/consequences of such legislation, nor concern over anyone else's needs or rights - just because a bunch of people think that they know "what God wants." You know.... stupid, asinine, moronic stuff.

My coming on a religious forum is a part of what I attempt to enact to exert what little control I feel I might have over the situation. Keeping the religious at bay by continuing to make people understand it isn't always wanted, isn't always pertinent, isn't important to everyone, isn't warranted by default. I feel the need to get the word out on that, and make it stick. The more trepidation people feel in bringing their religious views and beliefs out into public discourse as if it should matter to everyone, the better. It DOESN'T matter to everyone. And people need to know that, rather than get nothing but support because they're allowed to operate inside a bubble. I'm here to pop the bubble... and I will continue to attempt to do so.

That's like coming to RF to complain about Trump, then not voting in elections. Let me give you a hint--the more atheists invade RF to moan, the more I personally feel like going outside every day to do evangelism!

 

[BilliardsBall]

The point where your right to your own religious beliefs interferes with other peoples' right to their own religious beliefs, or lack thereof, in a public school setting.

What I'm needy of, is a relevant response from you that addresses the content of my posts for a change. Just once. You don't seem to understand yet that I'm looking for your opinion and your point of view on what is being discussed.

You are in no way seeking my opinion, except to fault find and discredit it. So there's that.

 

[BilliardsBall]

No, it really does not. It made the the Constitution possible, but it is a separate document. Don't worry, Christians often make this error.

So is the Dec valid as a document, or should we pay taxes to Parliament? What is your opinion as to how it is "separate"? I'm intrigued (actually, I'm not).

 

[BilliardsBall]

And there are limits to those rights. Too bad that you do not understand them.

Does a Muslim have the right to come into your church and interrupt a service by preaching the Koran?

Yes, he does. You understand neither church nor government (schools).

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

That's like coming to RF to complain about Trump, then not voting in elections.

So, you're saying that because I am not out in the streets, presenting my opinions to strangers, I'm not having any effect? For one, I don't approach people who aren't actively talking about religious subjects of which I am already a part. I don't "Evangelize" atheism... because the kinds of people who are willing to do that to people in public spaces, or after knocking on their doors, are buttheads in my opinion. Even most of what I do on internet forums is ask simple questions that don't have simple answers to try and get people to realize the poor modes of thinking they are in.

But I have been in Bible-study groups, and church functions where I raised my objections, and went through the rationalizations with them, and there were people who couldn't help but be responsive. In other words - don't pretend to know how much impact I am having. You'd probably be really, really discouraged to know the truth about that.

Let me give you a hint--the more atheists invade RF to moan, the more I personally feel like going outside every day to do evangelism!

A "hint"? Trying for a flare of the dramatic here, are we? Like I care what you do. If I saw you on the street, evangelizing to people, I'd do little more than shake my head and walk on - wondering how you felt about all the funny looks you were getting for a fraction of a second before forgetting I even saw you.

And if you happen to approach me, then I'll be there, any day of the week, to argue you into oblivion. Your side will always be the weaker of the two - belief versus withholding belief until warranted by evidence. So many times when I watch debates or hear about the responses of people who witnessed debates, I hear about how the religious believers went to their church leaders and asked why it seemed like their side was so much poorer in the debate, and what that means, hoping with all their might that the leaders have some wise words that will calm down the doubt ringing in their ears after having had to agree with a lot of what the non-theist side was saying. I truly believe it is only a matter of time. Nails are being hammered into coffin lids, the march of theism is grinding ever so slowly to what I believe will be its ultimate halt, or close enough to it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So is the Dec valid as a document, or should we pay taxes to Parliament? What is your opinion as to how it is "separate"? I'm intrigued (actually, I'm not).

I see that you did not understand the point.

No, the Declaration of Independence is a valid document. It is the document that separated us from Britain. But that is as far as it goes. Anyone that has studied history would know this. Of course strawmanning an argument is a tacit admission that one is wrong.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes, he does. You understand neither church nor government (schools).

No, sorry. That is not the case. Now I doubt if one could find a Muslim that stupid. But one can find a Christian that is:

Man Arrested After Telling Kids Santa Claus is 'Not Real'

If someone that did not belong to a church tried to preach his message there the results would likely be the same. Being arrested for trespass. There are limits on a person's rights. They end when they are inflicted on others. If one invades the space that belongs to someone else. Or has a captive audience, like in schools, then you have no right to proselytize.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You are in no way seeking my opinion, except to fault find and discredit it. So there's that.

I'm looking for what I ask for, I assure you. There's no need to erroneously attempt to read my mind.
But once again, the fact that you refuse to answer speaks volumes about how you feel about your own position.

 

[BilliardsBall]

So, you're saying that because I am not out in the streets, presenting my opinions to strangers, I'm not having any effect? For one, I don't approach people who aren't actively talking about religious subjects of which I am already a part. I don't "Evangelize" atheism... because the kinds of people who are willing to do that to people in public spaces, or after knocking on their doors, are buttheads in my opinion. Even most of what I do on internet forums is ask simple questions that don't have simple answers to try and get people to realize the poor modes of thinking they are in.

But I have been in Bible-study groups, and church functions where I raised my objections, and went through the rationalizations with them, and there were people who couldn't help but be responsive. In other words - don't pretend to know how much impact I am having. You'd probably be really, really discouraged to know the truth about that.


A "hint"? Trying for a flare of the dramatic here, are we? Like I care what you do. If I saw you on the street, evangelizing to people, I'd do little more than shake my head and walk on - wondering how you felt about all the funny looks you were getting for a fraction of a second before forgetting I even saw you.

And if you happen to approach me, then I'll be there, any day of the week, to argue you into oblivion. Your side will always be the weaker of the two - belief versus withholding belief until warranted by evidence. So many times when I watch debates or hear about the responses of people who witnessed debates, I hear about how the religious believers went to their church leaders and asked why it seemed like their side was so much poorer in the debate, and what that means, hoping with all their might that the leaders have some wise words that will calm down the doubt ringing in their ears after having had to agree with a lot of what the non-theist side was saying. I truly believe it is only a matter of time. Nails are being hammered into coffin lids, the march of theism is grinding ever so slowly to what I believe will be its ultimate halt, or close enough to it.

Why would I be discouraged to learn a skeptic is behaving exactly as the Bible predicts. If you actually weren't a strong advocate for your side against the Word of God, that would DISPROVE the Bible.

I evangelize to groups and individuals, and see people trust Jesus on a routine basis. No worries.