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Featured Enough To Make Fair-Minded Christians Sick To Their Stomachs

Discussion in 'Religious News' started by Skwim, Jun 11, 2019.

  1. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    So, now incest is ok and leaving out information (which, yes, is still a lie because you are not being honest and you are deliberately misleading and deceiving people) that others need to know because their ignorance due to deception gets them hurt is ok?
    Christians want to tell me I need their god and Bible to be moral, it seems they might need something else if getting people hurt, something that was totally avoidable, is acceptable.
    And we arent talking about Sarah. But since you brought her up, what of the slave girl Sarah ordered to get pregnant?
     
  2. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    I am definitely not a Bible fan ... but I see no need to twist good Bible verse into bad ... I still can see the good in things, even if surrounded by bad. And I still let others know if they do good, even (especially) if they do also bad (giving constructive feedback is far better than twisting good into bad)

    You twist my words ... I did not say incest is okay ... this was about Abraham and what he said

    You again twist things ...if you are asked a question and there are 2 correct answers and you give 1 that is definitely okay

    I disagree ... we have the right to be silent (not the right to lie) ... so no duty to keep on babbling... again you twist the story, better reread it yourself

    Still twisting the story (why you do that?) ... Abraham was going to be hurt by Abimelek, not the other way round

    Stick to the question ... you are the one going off topic and twisting ... why you do that? Start a new thread on Sarah if you want that issue addressed
     
    #82 stvdv, Jun 13, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
  3. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    That can be what's called passive-aggressive. The consequences can be dire and devastating for other people. IIt can be withholding information that would lead to an arrest and prevented a crime. It could lead a guy inadvertently sleeping with a married woman and angering her husband's god, all without the intention of doing so.
     
  4. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    It can be, but in my example it was not ... Abraham's choice to tell "she is my sister (being true)" lead to God being pleased with Abraham and even with Abimelek. And you did not see that one maybe, but Sarah was not even touched by Abimelek ... because Abraham did the right thing ... so God protected all three: a)Abraham was not killed by Abimelek + b)Abimelek did do the crimes (not rape Sarah and did not kill Abraham) + c)Sarah was not raped. Because of this outcome, I found it safe to say that this is a "good Bible story"

    So by saying "Sarah is my sister" Abraham avoided at least 3 crimes to be committed that day. I call that a win-win situation, not in the least for Sarah

    (Me mentioning God here, does not mean I believe in God (or not) doing all these things. Just hypothetical using the story details. For me the Bible is about learning lessons, it's not about "is the Bible right or wrong or needed to get Salvation" (I don't even know if that exists or not))
     
    #84 stvdv, Jun 13, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
  5. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Well-Known Member

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    Part 1: No

    Part 2: Yes
     
  6. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    What a crappy reply. Seriously, way to go champ. Really kept it clear and concise on that one. What is "Part 1" and what is "Part 2?" The entire paragraphs? Do you honestly think "No" is an adequate response to the first paragraph, or "Yes" an appropriate reply to the second? I have no idea what "question" or statement you're answering to within either paragraph and neither "Yes" nor "No" seem to adequately respond to the summation of content of either.

    If you don't care, fine. With the amount and variety of experience I've had with theists, your incoherence and apathetic treatment of question-laden material is not exactly "shocking."
     
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  7. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Well-Known Member

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    Do illegal drugs often or just sometimes (that is, breaking the law) because your response is like that of a hardcore drug addict.

    Repeating, I was invited to numerous schools to speak on sexual purity, and exercised religion and prayer while doing so! HAH!

    It bothers you SO much that you don't want a license plate to say "In God We Trust" because that is adding religion to state, yet the omission of same is proselytizing your religious beliefs--in courts of law, you know, where "legal" stuff happens. Stop persecuting Christians with your hate crimes. Illegal!
     
  8. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Well-Known Member

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    I'm a proud American with free speech and other rights, who HAS READ THE CONSTITUTION TO SEE THAT THE WORD "Church" ISN'T IN IT.

    You should be ashamed of yourself, American!
     
  9. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Well-Known Member

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    I wish. Heathens there too!
     
  10. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    This is completely nonsensical. Seriously though - can you even answer to the inanity of this reply? How does this quote:
    resemble some stereotypical statement of a "hardcore drug addict?" Are you even able to answer? 10-1 odds I don't get an answer from you. What a waste of time your words are most of the time.

    And the fact that you were invited means what? That you weren't breaking the law? So, if some unscrupulous-type invited you along on a bank heist, you'd be completely innocent of any crime when you helped bag the money from the vault, right?

    The bit in red above is so ridiculous it makes my head spin. Omission of religious words/paraphernalia/etc. anywhere is the DEFAULT STATE of that place/thing. Think about it. Take religious words off of money and what is it? Is it suddenly "atheist money"?? Nope... still just money. Take the church off of a plot of land and what is it? Does it somehow become an atheist plot of land?? Nope... just a plot of land. Omissions of specific religious baggage from anything is doing nothing more than opening it up for consumption by anyone and everyone - rather than catering to a select minority of the world at large.
     
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  11. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    What? You sound a bit insane. You broke the law. Like it or not proselytizing at public schools is both illegal and immoral. If a private school was foolish enough to do so that was their moral failure. But at least it was not a legal one.
     
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  12. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    Passive-aggressive is what the aggressor does
    Passive-aggressive does not apply to the victim
    Passive-protective might be a better wording
    Abraham and Sarah were the victims in this example
    Ergo ... they can't be blamed here at all

    Example to clarify and make it abundantly clear:
    Many times they blame the girl even, for being raped, because she did not scream
    This sickens me when people blame the victim

    IF someone tries to kill me ... and I kill him ... I would not call that "Active-aggressive" ... I call it "pro active protective" AND saving him committing a major sin:)
    When Bible says "Love thy enemy" this does not mean "let him kill you" ... Bible says also "Love thy neighbor AS (well as) thyself"
     
  13. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    In this case, its with holding important information, to the extent that the decision to deliberately not accurately inform other people (a lie) causes harm to those lied to.
     
  14. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    Pharoah - entire house hold cursed, pleading "why did you not tell me she is your wife?"
    Abimelech - threatened with death for unknowingly taking a married woman, pleads "why have you done this to us? What have we done to offend you?"
    Clearly the lie is causing problems for people, yet it's "ok" because its not a lie they are siblings.
     
  15. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    Wrong !!!

    upload_2019-6-14_2-46-59.png

    This is from the Bible, more clear than this you can not get it:
    1: Abimelek asked Abraham "why did you say she is your sister"
    2: Abraham replied "if I would have said she is my wife, you would have killed me"
    3: Abimelek's reply proved that Abraham did the right thing as Abimelek did not disagree with what Abraham said

    So Abimelek admitted that Abraham was right, by giving him silver and blessing both Sarah and Abraham (see link below)

    Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 20:1-16 - New International Version
     
  16. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    You havent read the whole story, nd as I pointed out Abimelek is not the only victim of Abrahams lies. He was right and Sarah is his sister, but even god said shes his wife. God cursed people and threatened others with death over it, because Abraham lied.
     
  17. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    Some remedial ethics:
    When Does The Omission Of Truth Become A Lie?

    https://www.aconsciousrethink.com/6477/lie-of-omission/
    Lie - Wikipedia
     
  18. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    Is there evidence of this? At best it's circumstantial.

    Had Abraham been honest, the same afflictions could have occured, with one difference. Abraham would be dead.

    I'm not sure why Abraham is being judged poorly for being deceptive in order to save his own life?

    If this same story occured outside of the Old Testament, in modern times, would you be this harsh?
     
  19. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    Okay, below is the whole story.
    You keep repeating I did not read it ... I read it all.
    You are free to interpret it the way you want, as am I
    I prefer my interpretation, so I stick to mine and you to yours
    So let's agree to disagree on this one

    Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 20 - New International Version
    upload_2019-6-14_8-51-7.png
     
  20. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    Once/yet again, you didnt read it all, obviously and clearly, becuse Abimelek isn't the only one Abraham did that too. And god still nevertheless threatened Abimelek over something he had no knowledge of because of Abrahams lie. It was much the same for this other victim I mentioned. Apologetics focus on that one chapter as if its the entire story, but it's not, and it's harder to defend when you have to explain why Abraham didn't learn after the first time.
     
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