Enough To Make Fair-Minded Christians Sick To Their Stomachs

[SkepticThinker]

I agree. You're not anti-Semitic for saying Israel was made by people.

Great, thank you.

It would be so, however, to deny the many attendant prophecies as self-fulfilled. It's not "Israel will be Jewish," it's "Israel will be Jewish after Jews are scattered everywhere, persecuted everywhere, hunted and hated..." and to say that would be self-fulfilled is bizarre at best.

What group hasn't been persecuted, hunted, hated, etc. at some point throughout human history? To say, "we are being persecuted and will continue to be" when it's actually happening, sounds more like an observation than a prediction, to me.

The self-fulfillment part of the prophecy simply alludes to the apparent fact that beliefs influence actions. It does not mean that the Jewish people wanted to be persecuted, or consciously did anything in order that they may be persecuted at some future time in order to fulfill the prophecy.

You didn't say such, but you must admit, THOSE prophecies were ALSO obviously fulfilled, less obviously, apparently, not self-fulfilled!

That people were/are persecuted/demonized/marginalized for their beliefs is pretty normal in the course of human development, apparently. I don't see anything divine or even remarkable about it. That someone would predict that they are going to be persecuted, when they are already being persecuted, doesn't amount to some big amazing prophecy fulfillment to me.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Great, thank you.


What group hasn't been persecuted, hunted, hated, etc. at some point throughout human history? To say, "we are being persecuted and will continue to be" when it's actually happening, sounds more like an observation than a prediction, to me.

The self-fulfillment part of the prophecy simply alludes to the apparent fact that beliefs influence actions. It does not mean that the Jewish people wanted to be persecuted, or consciously did anything in order that they may be persecuted at some future time in order to fulfill the prophecy.



That people were/are persecuted/demonized/marginalized for their beliefs is pretty normal in the course of human development, apparently. I don't see anything divine or even remarkable about it. That someone would predict that they are going to be persecuted, when they are already being persecuted, doesn't amount to some big amazing prophecy fulfillment to me.

Put it all together:

The Bible says Jews would be scattered to many nations? True?

" " persecuted in each of those nations. True?

" " the intelligentsia/cream of the crop in those nations. True? See Ashkenazi Jewish intelligence - Wikipedia

" " restored to their homeland after 2,500 years. True?

Who was persecuted for longer/more universally than the Jewish people? How did the Bible predict this?

Who has not had a homeland for 2,500 years, remained intact as a people group/race, then received their homeland again? How did the Bible predict this?