England was killed by an idea

[Truth in love]

I live here and it's helped. Europe as a whole is better off. More folks have healthcare, university education and help for families.

So when people are discharged from working as a condition or their "help" or just because they don't think they need to, does this not mean there is less for everyone to have?

The more people riding the fewer rowing means more work is required of each rower.

 

[Truth in love]

Well, the religious right sure quotes Leviticus 18:22 enough, so I figured it must be set in stone, no pun intended.

Biblical misinterpretation is not an endangered species. As a statement of doctrine Lev 18:22 it is 100% valid.

As a position for legal matters, it is something else. While some of the Law of Moses is enshrined into law in many nations (mostly the no murder and no stealing bits), most of it only functions as guide to behavior in the religious sense. (America long ago forsook thou shalt not covet).

We see in the NT that Christ was open to being more forgiving and less into harsh punishments by the government for sin. (John 8).

So the belief that homosexual behavior is sinful is very biblical. The idea that the government needs to kill anyone who engages in that practice is not in keeping with the whole teachings of the Bible.

I think one could argue that the LGBQT movement should not be promoted in schools or by other government agencies any more than they would promote Buddhism or Christianity. But having a government enforce the Bible's commandments is something America walked away from a long time ago.

 

[Truth in love]

Imo the thing that killed England and will kill us all is the industrial revolution,we’re all just waiting for the coupe de grace imo.

I would argue that the industrial revolution is not all bad, but that several laws and practices that discourage work, discourage quality goods for cheap throw away junk, and destroy wages are very bad.

 

[England my lionheart]

I would argue that the industrial revolution is not all bad, but that several laws and practices that discourage work, discourage quality goods for cheap throw away junk, and destroy wages are very bad.

Personally the industrial revolution killed many skills,art over repetitive work for me makes more sense and less throw away junk.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Biblical misinterpretation is not an endangered species. As a statement of doctrine Lev 18:22 it is 100% valid.

As a position for legal matters, it is something else. While some of the Law of Moses is enshrined into law in many nations (mostly the no murder and no stealing bits), most of it only functions as guide to behavior in the religious sense. (America long ago forsook thou shalt not covet).

We see in the NT that Christ was open to being more forgiving and less into harsh punishments by the government for sin. (John 8).

So the belief that homosexual behavior is sinful is very biblical. The idea that the government needs to kill anyone who engages in that practice is not in keeping with the whole teachings of the Bible.

I think one could argue that the LGBQT movement should not be promoted in schools or by other government agencies any more than they would promote Buddhism or Christianity. But having a government enforce the Bible's commandments is something America walked away from a long time ago.

I understand why it is condemned. Activities that have to do with the surrounding cultures was not to be assimilated by the Hebrews. They were to be separate. Yahweh has a black and white view of things and it's bled over to his followers.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There are beliefs which are taught and mandated. Including but not limited to what grounds may be used to decide who works for you in most industries, how much they need to be paid, what marriage is. Most recently for many a denial of biology and what a women is. Those rejecting these beliefs are shamed and in many cases punished.
We have rituals. From graduations to army metals. One cold even argue abortions on this.
We don't have "spiritual" leaders we have "science" leaders who proclaim what reality is, demand obedience and punish those who don't comply.
The most widely accepted criteria of a religion in the US at the time the constitution was founded was posted by me a few steps back. Welfare is in the religion domain.

That's what we call grasping at straws.
And as I said in that reply, your religion (or any of them) does not own a monopoly on welfare. It's been a thing before your religion. Even when we were mostly city-states we had some welfare going on.
What's absolutely pathetic is people thinking you have to have religion for it. You don't need religion to give or help people.

And those who paid for it were harmed.

I'm not down playing the need. I see the need everyday. The methods matter. A system where the giver does so by choice not threat of jail, or gun encourages the giver to care more about the receiver. When the receiver knows that the giver cared about them they also feel better.

The community that is built is one of caring and love. Also in many cases it is highly efficient where as the government systems require a sizable bureaucracy to run.

In a willing charity situation I decide how much I can spare and I give. I might give more time one month and more money the next.

That just would have left me **** out of luck when it comes to my medical care.

 

[Truth in love]

That's what we call grasping at straws.
And as I said in that reply, your religion (or any of them) does not own a monopoly on welfare. It's been a thing before your religion. Even when we were mostly city-states we had some welfare going on.
What's absolutely pathetic is people thinking you have to have religion for it. You don't need religion to give or help people.

That just would have left me **** out of luck when it comes to my medical care.

1. It’s not that a person must have religion to be kind or share. It’s that when kindnesses and sharing is forced that it’s no longer a good thing. I sit down to have lunch. You are hungry so you pull out a knife a rob me it’s a crime. On the other hand you say you are hungry and I choose to give to you it is no crime.


As our system has become very dependent on forceful help the extent of true giving is limited. That said many people do give, many professionals offer discounted of pro Bono services when there is great need.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

1. It’s not that a person must have religion to be kind or share. It’s that when kindnesses and sharing is forced that it’s no longer a good thing. I sit down to have lunch. You are hungry so you pull out a knife a rob me it’s a crime. On the other hand you say you are hungry and I choose to give to you it is no crime.

So it is not a good thing at all when religion does it because they are frequently obligated and mandated to tithe.

 

[Truth in love]

So it is not a good thing at all when religion does it because they are frequently obligated and mandated to tithe.

people are asked to give. In the USA the church cannot take the money by force. Government is all about force. It is powerful and should only be used in limited circumstances (like protection from invasion, punishing murder and robbery. )

 

[Shadow Wolf]

people are asked to give. In the USA the church cannot take the money by force. Government is all about force. It is powerful and should only be used in limited circumstances (like protection from invasion, punishing murder and robbery. )

In the OT tithing is instructed. Islam also shares this mandate for charity. But that's not really charity when you're told you have to it. It's just giving.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

1. It’s not that a person must have religion to be kind or share. It’s that when kindnesses and sharing is forced that it’s no longer a good thing. I sit down to have lunch. You are hungry so you pull out a knife a rob me it’s a crime. On the other hand you say you are hungry and I choose to give to you it is no crime.


As our system has become very dependent on forceful help the extent of true giving is limited. That said many people do give, many professionals offer discounted of pro Bono services when there is great need.

If you don't want community expenses, go live off in a log cabin somewhere. Whether or not people starve should not be dependent on charity, especially not in the US where most of these rich 'devoted christians' are content to just call the poor lazy and worthless, and spend not a dime on charity unless it gets them tax write offs or notoriety.

Pro Bono is great if you can afford to give it and want to, do, but don't make your social safety nets dependent on the kindness of strangers. It's bound to fail.

 

[Truth in love]

In the OT tithing is instructed. Islam also shares this mandate for charity. But that's not really charity when you're told you have to it. It's just giving.

The OT had a full fledge theocracy for some time. Pretty sure that is not the system you want.

there are many commandments. My ability to keep them are between me, God and any pastor priest etc I choose.

This is very different from the cops coming to take my things if I don’t pay.

 

[Truth in love]

View attachment 63975
If you don't want community expenses, go live off in a log cabin somewhere. Whether or not people starve should not be dependent on charity, especially not in the US where most of these rich 'devoted christians' are content to just call the poor lazy and worthless, and spend not a dime on charity unless it gets them tax write offs or notoriety.

Pro Bono is great if you can afford to give it and want to, do, but don't make your social safety nets dependent on the kindness of strangers. It's bound to fail.

Having worked with the government system for years I would not recommend it to anyone I cared about. And your quote wrong on the giving bit. Many of us give regardless of write offs and public notice. We do it because it’s the right thing to do.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The OT had a full fledge theocracy for some time. Pretty sure that is not the system you want.

there are many commandments. My ability to keep them are between me, God and any pastor priest etc I choose.

This is very different from the cops coming to take my things if I don’t pay.

Yeah. It's between you and your god, and his son who went as far to instruct people to sell all their belongings and give the money to the poor, commanded his followers to take care of the poor, and tells them to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's. And he said that specifically in regards to taxes despite the fact those taxes Jesus said to pay up were used for just about everything Jesus was against. He was apolitical and tells his followers to be not of this world.

 

[Truth in love]

Yeah. It's between you and your god, and his son who went as far to instruct people to sell all their belongings and give the money to the poor, commanded his followers to take care of the poor, and tells them to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's. And he said that specifically in regards to taxes despite the fact those taxes Jesus said to pay up were used for just about everything Jesus was against. He was apolitical and tells his followers to be not of this world.

yes so it would make sense that his followers would want to use his system and not be abused by an oppressive governmental one.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

yes so it would make sense that his followers would want to use his system and not be abused by an oppressive governmental one.

And yet he told people to pay their taxes to an extremely oppressive government where very few were free and entitled to the rights of citizenship. They used that tax money to launch military ventures to expand, butcher and enslave. They were a brutal military oppressor when and where Jesus spoke those words.

 

[Truth in love]

And yet he told people to pay their taxes to an extremely oppressive government where very few were free and entitled to the rights of citizenship. They used that tax money to launch military ventures to expand, butcher and enslave. They were a brutal military oppressor when and where Jesus spoke those words.

Yes.

I pay my taxes, but I don’t pretend that oppression, murder etc are okay.
I have and will continue to speak for truth, justice and the rights of all.

the direction to render unto Caesar did not mean that Rome was ideal and that we should not try to make things better.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Having worked with the government system for years I would not recommend it to anyone I cared about. And your quote wrong on the giving bit. Many of us give regardless of write offs and public notice. We do it because it’s the right thing to do.

I dunno how to tell you that your experiences aren't universal. Most developed countries pay more taxes and have more robust government systems yet their populace are happier, live longer, die less from treatable illnesses, are better educated, and a myriad of other positive traits from having more, transparent government oversight, strong limitations against venture capitalism, and strong social programs.

There is no such model for volunteerism. Certainly not in the US, where people are most certainly not 'giving because it's right.' Instead, they're stigmatizing the poor as lazy lagabouts holding society back and with that justification consign them to illness and death. Even though every available statistic shows that those on government programs on average work more than those above the poverty line. And those that don't by far are children, elderly, or those with physical or mental disability.

Working a day in a soup kitchen or donating $20 to cancer research doesn't absolve the damage done by stripping social safety nets.

Social programs > charity.

 

[metis]

But the US is not a representative democracy. Its an oligarchy of corporate interests, and the vast majority of media are owned by , and reflect the interests and opinions of, the corporations.
Major Study Finds The US Is An Oligarchy

Even though I agree with your tone, we are still very much a representative democracy.

 

[Truth in love]

I dunno how to tell you that your experiences aren't universal. Most developed countries pay more taxes and have more robust government systems yet their populace are happier, live longer, die less from treatable illnesses, are better educated, and a myriad of other positive traits from having more, transparent government oversight, strong limitations against venture capitalism, and strong social programs.

There is no such model for volunteerism. Certainly not in the US, where people are most certainly not 'giving because it's right.' Instead, they're stigmatizing the poor as lazy lagabouts holding society back and with that justification consign them to illness and death. Even though every available statistic shows that those on government programs on average work more than those above the poverty line. And those that don't by far are children, elderly, or those with physical or mental disability.

Working a day in a soup kitchen or donating $20 to cancer research doesn't absolve the damage done by stripping social safety nets.

Social programs > charity.

The US has issues not the least of which is being the world leader in traumatizing children.

our education system is a joke.
However none of this justifies the government stealing from a person.